August 10, 2014 6:45 pm -

A 70-year-old hunter is listed in serious condition after being accidentally shot on Saturday morning by one of his companions in a remote part of Napa County, according to The Press-Democrat.

The Napa  Sheriff’s Department said the Sacramento man was shot on the opening day of deer season when one of the other hunters in his party dropped his rifle.

“The firearm was accidentally dropped and a round went off and struck him in the head,” Napa Sheriff’s Sgt. Chris Carlisle said.

The victim was transported by a CHP helicopter which landed nearby and took him to a local trauma center.

The victim, Margarito Vazquez, was listed in serious but stable condition.

Does anyone know where Dick Cheney was today, because the name of the “accidental” shooter was not released. Sources say a deer was seen snickering while skipping into the sunset.

Image: CBS 

D.B. Hirsch
D.B. Hirsch is a political activist, news junkie, and retired ad copy writer and spin doctor. He lives in Brooklyn, New York.

107 responses to Hunter Accidentally Shot In The Head On Opening Day Of Deer Season

  1. Yeah way August 10th, 2014 at 6:48 pm

    So now you’re going to go after hunting tragedies as well?

    With Gallup reporting that 40% of democrats either own a firearm, or live with someone who does, “y’all” can forget about regaining the House if this is your new angle for civil disarmament.

    What a blunder.

    • edmeyer_able August 10th, 2014 at 6:51 pm

      Where do you see an attack on anyone, if anything it’s a call for safe handeling of firearms.

      • Eric Trommater August 10th, 2014 at 9:01 pm

        My first question would be who goes deer hunting on Aug. 10?

        • edmeyer_able August 10th, 2014 at 9:08 pm

          That’s another reason I like the Finger Lakes of NY.

        • Yeah way August 10th, 2014 at 11:11 pm

          Me, if the season would open. But here in Nova Scotia, we have to wait for November, unless using a bow or a muzzle-loader.

          Hunting seasons are determined by wildlife biologists: experts…not Liberaland posters…or Greenpeace.

          • Eric Trommater August 10th, 2014 at 11:16 pm

            I grew up in a hunting family in Michigan and the idea of hunting deer in the summer is as alien to me as celebrating the Fourth of July in February or Thanksgiving in June.

      • Yeah way August 10th, 2014 at 11:07 pm

        In preparation for shooting a deer, I would assume.

        However, the authorities will determine if this gentleman was following best practices, or not.

        Again, lol, I am simple wondering if we to see “hunting accidents” join the paradigm of this very anti-gun contributor.

        Simple question. Too simple I guess. Time will tell.

      • Yeah way August 10th, 2014 at 11:09 pm

        “”Where do you see an attack on anyone””

        Who said anything about an “attack”, what are you talking about?

        • Anomaly 100 August 10th, 2014 at 11:34 pm

          You did.

          • Yeah way August 11th, 2014 at 1:10 am

            Quote, please.

          • edmeyer_able August 11th, 2014 at 4:22 pm

            “y’all” can forget about regaining the House if this is your new angle for civil disarmament.

    • mea_mark August 10th, 2014 at 6:55 pm

      “new angle for civil disarmament.” — You are reading into this way more than you should be. Be careful about self-imposed delusions, they make your thinking awfully skewed.

      • Yeah way August 10th, 2014 at 11:01 pm

        Except it was a simple question, one which no-one seems to be able to give a straight answer to. Posting hunting accidents is not like posting about school shooters.
        While the latter may garner some anger and frustration from the masses, the former will only serve to drive away moderate Dems, of which there are millions that enjoy both hunting, and time at the range.

        I shall be careful not to ‘read more into this OP” than need be, sure. But the fact that lame attempts at ‘snark” seems to be substituting for any real thought on the matter, is worrisome.

        I spend a bit of time on hunting and sport shooting sites. I know for a fact that there are Democrats (Liberals in my country) that are unhappy when their party allows the extreme views, such as that of Dianne Glockstein to lead the conversation…especially when they start in with nonsense about prohibitions and bans on modern black composite stocks. Because that’s really all the AWB is. It really doesn’t address the firearm mechanism itself, just the stock. My grandfather’s old 30-06 BAR, in its old wooden furniture, is a FAR more powerful and deadly firearm that one of these little Mattel AR’s.

        Want to cut down on gun deaths? Then address your disgusting inequaility, your inner-city poverty and despair, provide universal health care including for mental health, and step up support for abused women and their children who find themselves trapped in a violent marriage…THOSE are liberal solutions, not prohibitions…that is an authoritarian “solution”.

        Ignore me, ignore my advice, and ignore the facts, at your own political peril.

        Good luck in November.

        • Eric Trommater August 10th, 2014 at 11:08 pm

          I will say this until the cows come home or something is done about it: 3/4 of all gun deaths are suicides. Do something about that and you have my attention.

          • Yeah way August 11th, 2014 at 1:13 am

            Sure, legalize euthanasia. That would be one liberal “part” solution.
            What, do you want to live forever, through agony and the horror of a wasting disease like ALS??
            Legalized euthanasia, universal health care, and locking up guns and ammo separately like here in Canada, (to prevent spontaneous suicides, a la Kurt Cobain) …those are three ‘solutions” that come to my mind.

            Your turn.

          • Eric Trommater August 12th, 2014 at 3:44 am

            My twin brother killed himself in February of this year. Since then preventing others from joining him and destigmatizing the mental issues that lead to it have become kind of an obsession of mine.

    • Tommy6860 August 10th, 2014 at 7:16 pm

      Most times, it’s the gun apologists who go on a tangent after reading articles like these; you posted non sequitur. Or did you miss the fact that the carefree gun owner who dropped his rifle should have never had a live round chambered, among the other careless actions this guy took, like leaving the safety off, etc.

      • Yeah way August 10th, 2014 at 10:52 pm

        “”should have never had a live round chambered””

        Lol…you (OR your 7 “like”-mates) have never hunted deer, have you?

        “”hey you, big ole buck, just stay right there, don’t move a muscle, while I work the bolt, chamber a round, and then regain my sight picture in the scope!””

        Safety on? Sure. On that we agree.

        And there is nothing “non sequitur” about my query, what are you talking about? Learned a new word today, did we? Thumbs up.
        I want to know if this poster, who seems virulently anti-gun and anti-gunowners, is now going to start posting hunting accidents…it is a simple question, that follows a simple article.

        • Anomaly 100 August 10th, 2014 at 11:31 pm

          You’re such a trolly little troll.

          If you’ve ever actually read my posts on guns you’d know that I am not ‘anti-gun’ at all. I am anti-Open Carry. I am anti-idiots with guns, such as yourself, who never call out irresponsible gun owners.

          You are what’s wrong with this country. I simply want gun sense, not gun bravado, with gangs of activists walking into family-friendly restaurants and upsetting the patrons.

          You should do something about that paranoia.

    • M D Reese August 10th, 2014 at 7:22 pm

      Why did you put y’all in quote marks?

      • Anomaly 100 August 10th, 2014 at 7:32 pm

        I “guess” he “loves” him “some” quotation “marks.”

        • Eric Trommater August 10th, 2014 at 8:52 pm

          …. and the lord of cASPLOCK did also sayeth that ye shall know his loved ones, not only by their echewing of the wicked lower case but also by their use of quotation marks for emphasis. Here endeth the lesson.

          • M D Reese August 10th, 2014 at 10:17 pm

            The only thing worse than the dreaded cAPSLOCK are those pesky keyboard “shortcuts”. Oops–just lost Peoria…

          • Yeah way August 10th, 2014 at 10:46 pm

            What’s a “cASPLOCK”?

          • Eric Trommater August 10th, 2014 at 10:59 pm

            Nobody told the new guy about not getting me started on cAPSLOCK? I blame all of you and may God have mercy on his soul.
            OK the cAPSLOCK button is used by evil people who are wicked down to their undersized hearts that pump neither blood nor oxygen but a form of bile that they must shout out on community posts in all caps in order to show that their opinion is more important than those using lower case letters.

          • fahvel August 11th, 2014 at 2:46 am

            it’s a thingamajig to make things look really really big and importaNT.

        • M D Reese August 10th, 2014 at 10:16 pm

          It just didn’t look right! Maybe it’s some sort of secret code…

          • Anomaly 100 August 10th, 2014 at 10:19 pm

            He must be NSA!

          • M D Reese August 10th, 2014 at 10:28 pm

            (Shh! There is No Such Agency!)

          • Anomaly 100 August 10th, 2014 at 10:37 pm

            I know, I was just testing you to see if you knew the NSA doesn’t exist.

          • M D Reese August 10th, 2014 at 10:41 pm

            (Never heard of it)
            Oddly enough I was just remembering Mae Brussel earlier today. When I was in high school (Carmel, Ca) I had a friend who helped Mae with research. She was an investigative reporter who started by researching the JFK assassination and then branched out from there. A lot of odd and terrible things happened to her and to her children and she died of a sudden and fast growing cancer–as did a lot of folks like her back in the day.

          • Anomaly 100 August 10th, 2014 at 10:49 pm

            Well I’m sure that had nothing to do with those nonexistent acronymic agencies like the CIA, etc, which again, do not exist.

          • Eric Trommater August 10th, 2014 at 10:51 pm

            Why are you wearing mismatched socks . . . again? Also you are out of milk . . .again.

          • Anomaly 100 August 10th, 2014 at 11:09 pm

            You guys are everywhere!

          • Eric Trommater August 10th, 2014 at 11:13 pm

            What guys? No idea who you are talking about.

          • Anomaly 100 August 10th, 2014 at 11:18 pm

            Of course you don’t. Neither does @ComgenKDT, who is also totally not a spy.

          • Eric Trommater August 10th, 2014 at 11:26 pm

            . . . and we are totally not in cahoots.

      • Yeah way August 10th, 2014 at 10:38 pm

        …because it is not a normal part of my lexicon…it’s something I hear “you people” say.
        And when I think of Americans, acting so cock-sure about subjects they seem to not bother researching i.e. evolution, climate change and firearms, I can’t help but hear colloquialisms. and malapropisms, like “partial birth abortion”, ‘random evolution” and ‘assault weapon”…yessirree!

        • M D Reese August 10th, 2014 at 10:43 pm


        • Anomaly 100 August 10th, 2014 at 10:51 pm

          So you’re not American then. Interesting. All of my English friends think America is obsessed with guns. I’ve lived all over the world and have never seen such craziness as I’ve witnessed with the Open Carry gangs.

          By the way, “congrats” on making “this” thread “all” about “guns”.

          It’s an important issue, which I did not bring up in the post.

          By the way, you’re an extremely paranoid person.

          • fahvel August 11th, 2014 at 2:45 am

            no he’s not – just pissed off at a lot of crap.

          • John David Peer August 11th, 2014 at 6:38 am

            Indeed, I cannot fathom deliberate obtuseness. Or silly accusations of being a “liar” or “paranoid”, what a silly crock, lol…

            This is the Internet, not the ‘UN!

            BTW how “paranoid” do I gotta be to be the only one using my real bloody name, lol!

            Good grief.


          • Anomaly 100 August 11th, 2014 at 10:29 am

            He should focus on his own country’s problems.

    • Denise August 10th, 2014 at 9:40 pm

      what does owning firearms have to do with an election?

      • Yeah way August 10th, 2014 at 10:36 pm

        What does it have to do with an election?? Is that a serious query?

        The ONLY thing stopping the evidence-lacking fail of an AWB 2.0 after Sandy Hook was the “check” of a divided Congress.

        As long as there are rabid anti-firearm zealots like Dianne “I’ve already got MY gun” Feinstein who continuously choose to ignore sensible reforms, like BG checks, better training, licensing and 3rd party insurance…in favour of her ridiculous and proven ineffective “prohibition” against all modern ergonomic improvements to the sporting rifle, there WILL be moderates and even Democrats that will refuse to vote the ticket and hand total power to the party that, yes, wants to take (at least some of) their guns away.

        It matters not how many times the anti-gun folks lie and call the ubiquitous AR-15 a “high-powered assault rifle” (it is neither), it happens to be the platform of choice for millions of American sport shooters and varmint hunters. It’s the “Model T” of modern sporting rifles.

        It’s not used for big game such as large deer, elk, moose etc…because the “high powered round”, the .223, is actually a moderate round, too weak to be used for big game hunting in almost every state or province.

        My question is simple: are ‘you people” that hate guns and gun owners so much that your eyes water and you seethe with rage – are you now going to come after the hunters too??

        “What does owning firearms have to do with an election”??


  2. Tommy6860 August 10th, 2014 at 7:17 pm

    Deer 1
    Hunter 0

  3. Denise August 10th, 2014 at 8:34 pm

    oooh deer!

  4. Eric Trommater August 10th, 2014 at 8:58 pm

    Deer season starts in the middle of summer in CA? What’s up with that? Who the hell would want to get all dressed up in camo when it’s 90 degrees outside to chase a deer around? How do you follow a blood trail? All the leaves are on the trees how do you even see anything or hide in the brush? It’s all brush. That is just nuts!

    • edmeyer_able August 10th, 2014 at 9:00 pm

      Kind of surprising they’re not suspending the season what with the drought .

    • Yeah way August 10th, 2014 at 10:45 pm

      Open seasons are determined by teams of conservationists and wildlife “large mammal” biologists. I don’t know if an early deer season in the norm for CA, but if not, it may just be that they are predicting an upcoming lack of food sources for the population, and have determined that a cull, via, a game-food harvest, is preferable to a mass starvation event. I would tend to agree, having personally seen the effects of starvation on animal populations.

      But that is just a guess.

      I doubt very much you will find the answer to your question here, lol…contact the DNR.

      PS, there is little need for “camo” to hunt deer, they are more or less colour blind. A tie-die t-shirt and paisley gold trousers would work about as well, lol, just to break up the solids.
      Camo is for migratory birds, in fact, here in much of the wild gun-totin’ northlands, we wear blaze orange when hunting big game. Just FYI.

      • Eric Trommater August 10th, 2014 at 10:54 pm

        You don’t really get the whole commenting on the internet snark thing do you? I started deer hunting when I was 12 years old. This was a bit of snark.

        • Yeah way August 10th, 2014 at 11:19 pm

          “”You don’t really get the whole commenting on the internet snark thing do you?””

          No, I guess I don’t. I spend more time on sites where folks actually spend a few minutes thinking about, and then formulating their thoughts into detailed posts. The “zippy one-liners” thing is kinda foreign to me…especially here on LL, wow. What a sea change there’s been.

          Sadly though, most of my favorite sites have been ‘blocked” here at work, by a recent IT change, and so that leaves LL. But also sadly, all the old posters seem to have either left, or perhaps been chased off by mediocrity, (and foul language) who knows?

          But it sure would be nice to read some actual content in some of these replies, instead of just swatting away school-yard gibes all night…*yawn*.

          What is it? 1997?

          • Eric Trommater August 10th, 2014 at 11:25 pm

            Wait, you are looking for serious content from comments on an internet site where you disagree with most of the people on many issues? Hmmmmm sounds legit. Yeah that doesn’t sound at all like “where are all the people who used to fight with me and let me win?”

          • Yeah way August 10th, 2014 at 11:35 pm

            What issues do I disagree with “most of the people on”?

            I’m a liberal gun owner from rural Canada, that has spent many years railing in support of gay marriage, reproductive rights, climate change, alternate energies, the Dream Act, universal health care, freedom from religion, an end to the despicable treatment of Muslims in your country – the list goes on.

            name ONE other issue besides firearms that you think I stand opposed to “most people” here??

            Although what difference would it make anyway? Do you think it makes for a better website/world/universe if we all think alike?

            Question: do any of you actually listen to Alan’s show?

          • Yeah way August 10th, 2014 at 11:43 pm

            It actually just goes to show how shallow is some of the thinking down there. Someone identifies as a gun owner/hunter/marksman (wannabee anyway), and suddenly there is NO WAY that person could EVER POSSIBLY be a “liberal”?? Nothing else I do or say about poverty, racism, equal rights, social justice or health care matters…I own guns so I must be a “right wing nutcase”, end of discussion, lol…

            See, this is exactly what’s going wrong down there. This type of prejudice is exactly what is rending your nation apart. It used to be mostly the “right” that did it: refusing to educate themselves about the science of climate change, or of evolution…but now the left is doing the exact same thing, putting their gun blinders on: “lalalala!”…and refusing to learn a darn thing…from anybody.

            Mind boggling. Of course, “you people” are the same ones that I saw actually called Um Cara a ‘troll”. One of the more respected voices from back in the heyday of LL, a “troll”?

            Good grief.

            I guess I shoulda just left then. But these anti-gun topics keeps floating across my FB news feed, and I find it hard not to refute misinformation…and when it comes to firearms, this OP, and this site, have become lousy with it…

            Offence intended.


          • Anomaly 100 August 10th, 2014 at 11:46 pm

            I’ve called you out for this before. You once claimed to a liberal – no one was fooled. Then you admitted that you didn’t know what you are.

            Now you claim you’re a liberal again. You are not a liberal at all. In no way,shape or form.

          • John David Peer August 11th, 2014 at 12:54 am

            OK, whatever you say. You journalistic skills are astounding!
            Have you thought about changing careers??

          • Yeah way August 11th, 2014 at 1:09 am

            LOL – you’re now “approving” my posts??

            On another thread, some moron told me to “go f*ck myself, and then go f*ck myself again…”, and you, anomaly100, were the sole “like” for his cretinish post…and now you want to “moderate” ME??

            That’s priceless!

            You seriously need to do some soul searching and find out what it is you think Alan wants on his site…

          • fahvel August 11th, 2014 at 2:42 am

            again well said – this overlord stuff is getting to be a power thing – administrators telling folks stuff when all they should be is commentators. Don’t like it much.

          • Jaz August 11th, 2014 at 1:50 am

            Dear Anomaly,… not everyone stands equally, right or left, I know I don’t, on every issue. I have a Liberal Premier that I can’t stand, even though I’m left leaning. There are so many world issues that have no left or right…Whether it be guns or gods.

            Our world problems will never be rectified with a politically, corrupt, corporate/religious left or right leaning agenda, yet rather by comprehensive scientific leadership. As you well may know, scientific funds have been slashed at alarming rates, both here in Canada and the US.

            IMO, these are the key elements our countries should be fighting to re-establish, education is a must for a just society.

            Don’t you think?

          • John David Peer August 11th, 2014 at 6:33 am

            It’s a trap, that we’re all guilty of occasionally stepping in. I guess the politicos like it, in the way that it’s human nature to want to be part of a ‘team”, and so if not careful, we start to slide towards policies we wouldn’t have normally ever liked…but…hey…it’s our “team” and so not only will we change our tune and start accepting the policy, but soon we will start singing its praises!

            I did that with The ACA. I spent so much time fighting to defend it against it’s detractors, I forgot that I hate it too…it doesn’t do ENOUGH.

            Here in Canada, I am sorry that the NDP are likely going to lose big next year…and, IMHO, part of the reason is their insane draconian stance on firearms…a total ban of handguns, semi-automatics, even .22, lol and duck guns…in short they want a prohibition, and everything that comes with that.

            IMO some folks that call themselves liberal go hard to “authoritarian” when they support civil disarmament…jus IMO.


          • Jaz August 11th, 2014 at 3:39 pm

            I think the NDP will lose their Quebec ridings? Not really liking any of our leadership, except May…and she’s a long shot. 🙁

          • John David Peer August 12th, 2014 at 3:04 am

            Shhh…I vote Green too, don’t tell my new “liberal friends”, they think I vote KKK.

            Yes, we’re headed for a minority gov’t, either CPC or LPC, depending on who gainst enough seats in Quebec. I don’t think the NDP can hold those seats – they shoulda picked a francaphone leader, arghhh!

            c’est dommage…

          • Eric Trommater August 10th, 2014 at 11:56 pm

            Well I guess the definition of liberal has changed in the last five minutes because your jumping on an article about an accidental shooting and making it about gun rights is about as illiberal as anything I have read in days. The fact that you picked this comment to reply to instead of mine about suicide speaks volumes about your actual mindset. You are the one who is not wanting to discuss real issues. You didn’t have any talking points about that issue so you jumped instead to something you’d be more comfortable with, which is also very illiberal.
            I have no dog in this particular fight. I don’t own a gun. I also don’t think we should be pushing any more laws while we have 2.3 million people in prison and I include gun laws in that. I actually think that since the violent crime rate is at a 40 year low now is the time for us to start deregulating a lot of what people do in their private lives and demilitarizing our police force. I argue against gun safety nuts and gun nuts for the same reason. They are all part of the complex web of deception that is bent on frightening America to death.

          • John David Peer August 11th, 2014 at 12:53 am

            “”Well I guess the definition of liberal has changed in the last five minutes because your jumping on an article about an accidental shooting and making it about gun rights is about as illiberal as anything I have read in days. “”

            Slow down there bro’…I haven’t MADE it ‘about gun rights” at all! I asked a simple question: is the OP going to now add hunting accidents to his/her quiver of anti-gun arrows??

            …or is amomaly100 actually going to start a hunter safety course on LL? If so, I apologize for getting it so wrong! I look forward to the next lesson in gun safety.

            It’s a simple question, you are reading too much into it. I did not see your comment about suicide, and so I have not responded to it, and I have been trying to respond to posts right and left…and so nothing has “been said about my mindset” (??) whatsoever, lol.

            What “mindset”?? Because I don’t support civil disarmament, I have a “mindset” now, lol??

            We agree one ONE thing: the definition of “liberal” has certainly been changing!

            I can only think that the American left, envious of the way that the right seems to be able to march in lockstep, now wish that for themselves. Well, I’m sorry, friend, but part of being a liberal, by definition, is to think thinks through, and not just hop on the bandwagon without looking at the issue from all sides.. and the “bandwagon” around this site has recently become an ‘anti-gun” one, and there is nothing “liberal” about curtailing people’s ability to safely own and use firearms.

            In just about every post I have made on the subject, I have mentioned my FULL support of regulation – provided that it is EVIDENCED-BASED, such as more adequate training, BG checks, closing the gun show loophole, bedside safes instead of “under the pillow”, 3rd party liability insurance (I have $5 million), etc etc. But all that gets completely ignored in your rabid attempts to show gun owners as ‘the enemy”. So then 40% of Dems are your enemy too…

            But all I hear is “why won’t the GOP pass a gun bill??”, and I am TRYING to explain why, IMO…it’s because the Dems refuse to absolutely take the idea of another senseless (and useless) AWB off the table. They did at the last minute in 2012, but many gun owners simply do not trust the players…just like many lefties don’t trust the GOP to write bills about late-term abortions, even though few people support them. (I do…it’s between a woman and her MD)… but deaf ears all around.

            It is NOT even sane to be discussing prohibitions against bayonets, come to your bloody senses why don’t you??

            2 years ago, your president was ridiculing bayonets, and now he wants to freaking BAN them??

            Give me ONE example of a milsurp bayonet being used for violence in peacetime, just one!

            For YEARS I sat on this site, and others, and screamed at Republicans that “no-one is trying to take your guns!”. And then, after Sandy Hook, that is exactly what Dianne Feinstein et al tried to do. Fact.

            But you, and others here, completely ignore that, and so I say it is YOU who has no talking points here, not me.

          • fahvel August 11th, 2014 at 2:34 am

            good one Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • John David Peer August 11th, 2014 at 6:18 am

            …on the other hand…

        • fahvel August 11th, 2014 at 2:33 am

          and you are proud about killing innocent animals grazing???

          • John David Peer August 11th, 2014 at 6:17 am

            What, praytell, in an “innocent animal”?? Do you think that nature, is some group of differing species, sharing their altruistic experiences, all just waiting for a fair chance, lol??

            There are no “innocent animals” or, for that matter, “blame-free plants”…. you have anthropomorphized a brute animal. It acts on instinct, parental observation, role-playing as a youth, and muscle-memory.

            And deer are herbivores, and so, yeah they spend a great deal of their time grazing. Hey, maybe next time out, I’ll try to get one to charge at me, baring its fangs…and I’ll shoot just as it leaps at me intending to tear my throat out, how’s that sound??

            Am I proud of harvesting fresh and natural-grown meat for my family? You bet. Almost as much as I am my wife’s herb garden, and our vegetable plot.

            I feel sorry for “you people” who obviously don’t get out of the city much (it shows, yeahhhh…sorry). No outdoorsman, native, aboriginal or even just a rural folks thinks of harvesting game as “killing an innocent animal”, that’s just silly. That reminds me so much of when the right wing fundamentalists start talking about “crying babies being ripped from the womb during murderous partial birth abortions!!”

            It’s just empty hyperbole mate. Come hunting some time, Harvest a small animal, say a duck, or even a canada goose, and cook it up for your family!

            They’ll love it! unless, of course, they been raised in front of a TV. and all they can think is that you want to kill Bambi, aaww.

            But I don’t have a roe deer license, so Bambi gets a pass!

            Anyway, hope I answered your query, thanks.

          • Bunya August 11th, 2014 at 2:29 pm

            Being a vegetarian myself, I have to agree with fahvel.

          • John David Peer August 12th, 2014 at 3:01 am

            That’s cool. but, tell me, is it there more or less “honour” in buying meat from the grocery store? Or do you see harvesting wild game in exactly the same light?
            Here’s one thing: most of my hunter friends, when they don’t harvest, say, a deer, or a bear, or moose…they eat less meat until they do.

          • Eric Trommater August 12th, 2014 at 3:37 am

            You could have simply said I was welcome here. I would have left.

          • Eric Trommater August 12th, 2014 at 3:36 am

            So my choices are to be a vegetarian or vote Republican? Hmmm tough choice. Is their a third party that will allow me to eat meat but still vote my conscious and speak my views on issues?

  5. M D Reese August 10th, 2014 at 10:15 pm

    Me too. It had such promise.

  6. labman57 August 10th, 2014 at 10:26 pm

    Karma is indeed a bitch.

  7. Jaz August 11th, 2014 at 2:24 am

    It’s sad to hear that Um Cara was called a troll? Um Cara has been a fantastic contributor to LL, since ’07-08 He is wise, beyond the US border, having lived internationally. He brought a unique sense of realism to US relationships outside it’s borders.

    Please newcomers, never call Um Cara a troll. It might be wise to listen to this amazing globe trotter. One learns more by listening…than making much ado, about nothing…lol

    • fahvel August 11th, 2014 at 2:32 am

      thanks jaz – some of this administrator stuff is bland with the contant childish pratter and things like le sigh. The LL site is not what it used to be.

      • Jaz August 11th, 2014 at 3:31 am

        I totally agree. fahvel.

    • Obewon August 11th, 2014 at 3:05 am

      I Agree. But can you provide a thread where you claim this occurred? I looked through a few recent Um Cara posts and replies but i read nothing even remotely derisive. — Um Cara posts are linked via his user ID.

      • Jaz August 11th, 2014 at 3:31 am

        No, Obi, I can’t. I’m not here often enough…just gossip, hopefully?

        • Obewon August 11th, 2014 at 3:41 am

          Sounds like someone perhaps conflated the 8th Bob Waas Botz ban under 8 different troll ID’s!

        • Jaz August 11th, 2014 at 3:44 am

          I remember reading it somewhere….seriously, true. One quick quip somewhere???

          Once upon a time, one used to be able to have differing opinions on here without being called names, unfortunately that no longer holds true. 🙁

          I used to dislike going on right wings sites because they never had a solution to problems and they severely lacked any form of controlled communication, even amongst themselves. What I am seeing on here now, is that the so called Liberals here, have taken the same low road, just like their opposing brethren.

          • John David Peer August 11th, 2014 at 5:51 am

            Well said, Jaz, and painfully true. And thank you for remembering you had read that thread in the face of “Obewan’s” doubt.

            It’s sad, but he too was a poster I generally agreed with, when I could understand him. I think our “Obiwan” comes more from a technical writing background, and while his facts ARE generally sound for what they are, his bedside manner has always SUCKED!

            For the rest of the Liberaland doubters, here is some of that thread, and you can see for yourself if maybe a few of us old regulars may just be correct – the newbies need to calm the f*ck down, and realize this is not a site for posting one-way pithy snark – save that for twitter. At least, I don’t THINK that’s his attention, lol – he DOES have “radio graffiti” – the first twitter!

            At any rate, Liberaland USED to be about dialogue, heated dialogue, yes, but the was a linguistic decency filter that served us well…both a technical one, and an unspoken one.

            *Sigh*, I miss it. I think after Alan changed to an early time slot, or maybe after the last election, the regulars began to drift away…not all, and many of us have come back…not sure how long I’ll stay…I don’t mind being the “heel” once in a while…I am the “bad guy” all the time on right wing sites, lol!

            But Liberaland? It’s actually a little bit sad. There are folks hear WAYYY to fixated on the subject of firearms, and the site has really skewed in that direction. Hey, Alan’s sandbox, Alan’s rules. No problem…and, like I say, I am actually thrilled to see an increase in traffic, more like the old days…

            ….only in 140 characters, and the off f-bomb thrown in!

            Peace, and thank you again.

            Tammy Minton to Haley Amie • 23 days ago

            i agree–this poster seems hell-bent on pissing off somebody, anybody…

            attention-seeking behavior…the first sign of trollishness… see more

            Yeah way to Tammy Minton Haley • 21 days ago

            Unbelievable. Now Um Cara is being accused of being a ‘troll” – and let’s look at why:
            (His comment:)
            “”If you think Florida too dangerous to visit, that in fact ‘only a fool’ would go, then I suppose pretty much all of Central and South America are off your list as well. That’s too bad – you are missing quite a bit!””

            There is absolutely nothing wrong with this statement, and it is absolutely true. I lived for two years in Central America, and I never felt safer – even though there is violence and death on a daily basis. It is not, however, generally targeted at humble teachers like myself. It is gang-related, through personal vendettas, and a result of the “war” on drugs fueled by CIA moneys.

            People are becoming hysterical over the constant repeating in the media of violence and what they perceive as violence. The poor ole farmer in the OP isn’t going to shoot anyone – he was very frustrated, and let his mouth run away with his passion. People that REALLY plan on shooting, don’t usually announce it “in public!” as he made sure to do.

            There was a time that liberals on liberaland would have felt more compassion for the ole guy, and not tried to demonize him for his poor choice of words. And that is exactly what UC did: feel some empathy for the farmer, but also agree that his language was very inappropriate (although he DID say “beeeep” for sh*t, which is more than folks HERE do)…

            To say that people are “fools” for visiting ANY of the 50 states shows just how deep the ignorance has become.

            A, attention-seeking “troll”? Um Cara??

            That’s priceless, unbelievable!

            Who ARE you people, and how did you end up here on

            Lol..UC – it’s nothing short of a hostile takeover!


            Um Cara to Yeah way • 19 days ago

            Lol – yep, some pretty hostile people. The site has changed quite a bit since this merger. It kind of seems like we kept the name liberal land but adopted the soul of whatever we merged with and left the LibLand soul in the garbage.

            Hopefully these new folks will figure out it is OK to disagree, no reason to get all het up about it, why not just discuss it.

            And yes, compassion seems in short supply lately – there used to be enough of it for everyone, these days it seems like folks have to ‘deserve’ it based on some weird criteria like ‘they agree with everything I think’.

        • Obewon August 11th, 2014 at 1:13 pm

          I wouldn’t be concerned or ‘hustled’ via a single comment from 23 days ago: — Tammy Minton Haley <-And T.M. Haley isn't a Moderator. Chimps are still evolving too!

          • John David Peer August 12th, 2014 at 2:56 am

            Who said it was a moderator that threw out the “troll” ad hominem?
            What are you raving about?

            You didn’t believe my offhand comment, it was no big deal, UM cara, as I said, brushed it off long ago…but you startd in with this crap “IF it happened”, was implies that I made it up…and then when I provide your stupid proof, you cry because it’s “23 days ago”!! How about “sorry man, someone DID say that”?

            What the heck is WRONG with you??

            Um Cara said it best, when he said this place has become hostile, and it’s not jut the new kids, it’s some of the old guard as well…jasper freaking java calling me everything under the sun!

            And all this because I disagree with you over GUNS??

            You’ve lost your mind dude. Please block me, or just ignore me, you make even less sense than you did a couple years ago.

          • Eric Trommater August 12th, 2014 at 3:53 am

            She turned me into a newt. I got better!

          • Obewon August 12th, 2014 at 3:58 am

            Ha ha. Willow Osgood!

          • Obewon August 12th, 2014 at 4:03 am

            Sarah Palin vs John Cleese ‘She turned me into a newt!’

      • John David Peer August 11th, 2014 at 4:48 am

        So Pokémon, you’re calling me a liar now?
        You’ve really sank, man, down to the dirt.

        Unlike you, I am not the master of URLHurling, and I feel absolutely ZERO need to dig around and find the thread. But FYI, it was another one of these ridiculous anti-gun mutual appreciation parties, and someone made the comment “with all those gun owners in Florida, I’m afraid to go there any more”, or some such. Um Cara replied with the perfectly logical statement along the lines of “If you let fear of guns stop you, there are many places you will never see, including South America…”

        The comment I referred to followed that…not just accusations of troll-don, lol, but other childish unpleasant sh*t as well. As usual, although standing up for himself, he took the high road and bowed out of the thread graciously. Anyway, I’ve spent more on the subject than it deserves. But the insinuating that I fabricated the whole thing, is a need less ad hominum
        Proves one thing to me, your skills of finding things on the Interwebs are (now) demonstrably lacking, which I kida thought anyway. your links rarely address the point that is being made to you.

        • Obewon August 11th, 2014 at 12:54 pm

          J. D. Peer take your meds. You have serious comprehension, sanity, self esteem and obsessive compulsive issues.

          1. “So Pokémon, you’re calling me a liar now?” (Where did I post to you J.D. Peer, or say “Liar” here in asking for ‘context?’)

          2. As posted by one ID of 1,000’s 23 days ago: “i agree–this poster seems hell-bent on pissing off somebody, anybody…attention-seeking…” — Tammy Minton Haley <-T.M. Haley isn't a Moderator, nor is she "it was new management."-as Jaz was 'apparently deceived' into posting by 'J. D. Peer'.(The guilt! The shame!)

          3. And by the way: why have you been posting to yourself as 'Yeah Way' and 'J. D. Peer'? Get help. In your Nova Scotia, Canada. Lets hope they can begin to remedy your cascading inadequacy issues.

          • John David Peer August 12th, 2014 at 2:47 am

            “”And by the way: why have you been posting ‘I wholeheartedly agree’ to yourself as ‘Yeah Way’ regarding your own posts by ‘J. D. Peer’?””

            Dude, you’ve become so bitter, I am so disappointed. Throwing out silly accusations of “paranoid” and “delusional” to people that you don’t agree with? On freakin’ LIBERALAND!?

            Wow, just wow. And, yeah, when you say

            I have said over and over again that depending which device I am using, computer, Kindle, phone etc, I can sometimes log in as “Yeah way”, but after the (horrible) merger, I started logging in with my real name.

            I guess you didn’t see the humour when I posted as Yeah way beause I can’t log in to FB at work to use my name, and then, under it I wrote as John Peer (on my phone):

            “”I agree with this guy!

            one of my friends”

            Or maybe you (still) don’t get it, lol??

          • John David Peer August 12th, 2014 at 2:50 am

            And yeah, Obi-wan-bi-polar, when you say “I Agree if true? But can you provide by who? And a thread where you claim this occurred?””…you’re calling me a liar.

            And yet I found the link you couldn’t, lol…but it somehow didn’t happen because it was 2-3 weeks ago?? What planet are you on bro’, you’ve lost it since back in the day.

            You never DID make much sense to me, but I always felt you had a good heart…but man, you’ve grinched up bro’ – any the proof you asked for is supplied.

            apology accepted in advance

          • Obewon August 12th, 2014 at 3:24 am

            Post a reply to me as ‘Yeah Way’ and I will be happy to link your own approval to your other ID’s post! Mea_Mark noted your post to yourself! Remember?

            -Else the puck a liar call so goodnight unto you all. Give me your hands, if we be friends.-Shakespeare’s Puck. A Midsummer Night’s Dream.

    • John David Peer August 11th, 2014 at 5:10 am

      Agreed. But he more or less laughed it off, the way I laugh off the flak I get from the newbies here.
      Um Cara joined, I think, about the same time I did…which is to say the week Alan started the site…2007 I think it was. He had been announcing it on his show. I was baD mR fRosTy then, but can no longer seem to log in as such, having lost both the pw AND the email I used back then. Then I became Yeah way, but I am John Peer. each of my devices seems to like to choose which ID to use.
      I prefer my own name these days, having grown weary of all the anonymity…but I see its value as well.
      Back then there was lots of great (and long and mundane and epistle-like) arguments…God, evolution, climate change, economics guns were almost never mentioned (thankfully)…because they just weren’t in the news, that’s all.

      It’s amazing how many iterations Liberland has gone through – remember the chat stream? Webpage graffiti? All the different formats?

      Some really sucked, lol, others were better. At least this one lets us ‘edit” or typos and poor spelling, and for the (apparently, according to one self-described liberal here), “mentally deficient” folks out there like me that are poor spellers, that’s been a boon.

      Anyway, whatever happen to Trees are People Too? he spent years fighting the good fight for Jesus against hordes of hostile atheists! Now that I have felt a bit of that hostility myself, as a liberal gun owner, I almost feel bad for the way we sometimes jumped on the fundamentalist Christians that used to come here. See, those that listen to Alan’s show know that he has mostly conservative callers…talk radio having a right lean, and Fox being one of the major networks that supports Alan’s show…and so it was a pretty lively place for debate back in the day.

      I miss that. This schoolyard nonsense that passes today…some cretin telling me to “go f*ck myself!” over and over…that NEVER would have passed the decency filters (which COULD be very annoying as well mind you). And to have a MODERATOR actually “like” that vitriolic garbage?? Really?

      If there is one thing that I have learned from these years of listening to Alan, it is that the best discussions do not involve silly (or vicious) name-calling, or vitriol, or accusations of dishonesty, they involve a fair exchange of ideas.

      But coming here as a liberal gun owner, supporting regulation like safe storage, better training, improved BG checks and licensing, and even 3rd party liability…and for my efforts getting called every thing from ‘troll” to having “lost my humanity” (?? huh? Wait, what, lol??)….

      It’s been a bit of an eye opener. if this new crop of “liberals” that started appearing after some merger a couple/few months back are the future of the American left, “Y’all” are in a pile ‘o trouble!

      Good luck with that!


      • John David Peer August 12th, 2014 at 2:37 am

        I would like to thank whomever removed the “go f*ck yourself etc etc” post.

        I just can’t get used to that language here. It was never Alan’s style to allow that kinda garbage. Opposing positions, sue…heated debate, of course…even the odd low blow here and there, hey it’s the Interwebs, not the UN!

        But we did quite nicely for many years without resorting to obscene language. Not everyone thinks it’s “clever” to use vitriol and/or hateful speech…Oh well.

        vive le neaveau…

    • craig7120 August 11th, 2014 at 3:08 pm

      Um Cara a troll? Nerd? You bet he is, Oh I’ve seen the Romulin quotes.
      I really don’t know what the “dude” looks like, but im told he dated a porn actress once, besides, ain’t nobody uglier than me. Wait, a troll, as in an internet drive by? Hardly the case, he’s one of the good guys.

      Um’s a troll?
      Frosty is a “new guy”?
      Obewon is pokemon?

      I’m lost

      • Jaz August 11th, 2014 at 3:18 pm’re not ugly, your cute, just like your puppy…I see you :p

        • craig7120 August 11th, 2014 at 3:25 pm

          You’re sweet
          That’s Josie she’s 8 months 100 lbs of stubborn female

          • Jaz August 11th, 2014 at 3:44 pm

            Beautiful dog, indeed. I saw her pretty face on your fb.

      • John David Peer August 12th, 2014 at 2:31 am

        It’s a madhouse here now!
        The lunatics have, truly, taken over the asylum!

        There’s some high school kids here acting as hall moderator’s, and they keep telling me I’m “no liberal!”, lol., (among other even less pleasant things)…and that I “only just joined Liberaland” to be a “troll”…at least I’m in good company with the other “non-liberal”trolls!

        What the heck was I thinking all those years I harassed the right wingers on here! Poor Kregg, and Trees – I guess I owe them an apology!

        Apparently, because I hunt up here in the Great White North, and believe in sensible gun laws, not prohibitions, I’m now a far right wing Republican!

        see ya in church


        • craig7120 August 12th, 2014 at 1:09 pm

          I apologized to trees last year for all the hateful things I directed his way. Kregg was formidable, remember the 900 comment thread? It was over gay marriage or darwins birthday.
          Um trees yourself taught me leave out the emotions and stick to the subject over the years.
          Was it 07 or 08 Alan started this site? We had some fun at W’s expense. We didn’t like W but nothing I remember back then compares to where the current gop is, they’re lost in hate.

          Now, one of these days america will address the gun issue when cooler heads are voted in and both sides will listen to the views shared by opposing sides. Scaring little old ladies at target, inner city genocide of its citizens won’t be tolerated just so the sane like yourself can own a weapon for hunting or collecting.

          My worry is the paramilitary type law enforcement thats being established throughout our cities, my opinion on self protection has modified over the last couple of years. Our votes count more than ever and getting people involved and convincing them to vote is the challenge facing liberals now.

          You be safe. See ya in church? Damn atheists have church now so im currently studing daoism/taoism, the nearest temple is really really far away, damn my bad luck.


  8. edmeyer_able August 11th, 2014 at 4:11 pm

    Just curious, are you a vegetarian?

  9. Jaz August 11th, 2014 at 4:21 pm

    My brother is a successful hunter and he sure isn’t out to prove his manliness. He’s just a regular guy who happens to like organic game, as I do. How do you think mankind has survived throughout the millenniums? We are hunter/gatherers by nature. What I find more offensive is how we treat our domesticated livestock, it’s pumped full of hormones, crap feed and cramped quarters, if your so unlucky as to be a pig or chicken. No thanks, to these stressed out animals. At least wild game has had a chance to roam the wilds.

    Ya, it’s much easier to drive to a store and get that T-bone steak, without thinking how that animal fared, before it was murdered. Eh!

    My brother goes out for 5-10 day stretches, 500+ mile journey, to bag his and my dinner, mostly under severe weather conditions and rough terrain, with no guarantee of a catch. He’s conscientious to the suffering of any animal and does not shoot to maim, but chooses his target carefully with a quick and clean kill. I’m proud of his marksmanship and his compassion in all things wild. He’s also quite content to just sit in a meadow with his camera in hand, shooting wild-life through the lens.