Mother Shot In Head While Protecting Baby From Drunken, Abusive Father
Jessica Arrendale sacrificed her life for her baby, by sliding herself over a toilet and protecting the baby who was placed in the bowl as she lay dying, shot in the head by the baby’s drunken, abusive father.
[su_center_ad]
The fight started Saturday night after the two returned from dinner and Antoine Davis, 30, became belligerent, [Jessica’s mother, Teresa] Ionniello said. Holding their baby, Jessica tried to defend herself with a baseball bat, but Davis took it from her, according to Inninello.
Davis struck Jessica several times with the bat, and she ran into a bathroom and locked the door. Davis, a former Marine, got an assault rifle and beat down the door. He shot Jessica once in the head.”He shot her and they (police) don’t know how she was able to twist her body and fall literally in the opposite direction,” Ionniello told the station. Instead of falling onto the floor, Ionniello said her daughter fell over the toilet, dropping little Cobie into the bowl.
Davis later shot himself to death inside the home as police gathered outside.[su_csky_ad]
GOTP Lemmings September 20th, 2014 at 12:15 pm
Another “responsible” gun owner!
rokpaperskizzors September 20th, 2014 at 12:31 pm
Another “responsible” mother failing to protect her child from a predictably violent man. The argument can cut both ways.
mea_mark September 20th, 2014 at 12:50 pm
Sounds like you are totally wrong. The mother died protecting her baby. She gave her life being responsible.
rokpaperskizzors September 20th, 2014 at 12:55 pm
Abused women are always given a pass for not fleeing from an abusive relationship even when they have the means and method to save themselves and their children. Staying with a killer you consider to be responsible? Spend much time on this planet?
Anomaly 100 September 20th, 2014 at 1:06 pm
Maybe you should read a bit more about battered women. Also: Stockholm syndrome.
Stop blaming the victim. It makes you look really bad.
mdram September 20th, 2014 at 1:08 pm
Thank you!
Anomaly 100 September 20th, 2014 at 1:25 pm
Thank you for being a real man, and not another victim-blaming Republican.
rokpaperskizzors September 20th, 2014 at 1:46 pm
I don’t know what a victim blaming Republican is, but married 30 happy years gives me some perspective on the topic.
Tracy Lund September 20th, 2014 at 2:13 pm
no, it actually doesn’t.
jasperjava September 20th, 2014 at 2:25 pm
I pity your wife. I really do.
Anomaly 100 September 20th, 2014 at 2:26 pm
No, it really doesn’t. Just because you are happily married, that does not give you insight into spousal abuse in other unhappy marriages.
rokpaperskizzors September 20th, 2014 at 1:22 pm
So you too are making the case that because she either suffered from battered wife syndrome or Stockholm Syndrome, she bears no responsibility for this tragedy and her own death?
Anomaly 100 September 20th, 2014 at 1:24 pm
You must be a republican if you’re blaming this woman, who heroically save her baby’s life, instead of the perpetrator.
Congrats. You blamed the victim.
rokpaperskizzors September 20th, 2014 at 1:31 pm
You assume a lot from one debate. I will admit to this for now, the timing of this argument shows little respect for the life of this women and the sad life this child is no doubt going to lead. It’s regrettable he didn’t kill himself. I would be ok with that.
Anomaly 100 September 20th, 2014 at 1:32 pm
He did kill himself.
rokpaperskizzors September 20th, 2014 at 1:33 pm
Thx for the correction.
mea_mark September 20th, 2014 at 2:03 pm
If you are not going to read the article before commenting, why bother to comment at all? You don’t know what you are talking about because you didn’t read the article.
jasperjava September 20th, 2014 at 2:25 pm
rokpaperskizzors is not the sharpest scissors in the drawer.
Montag September 20th, 2014 at 7:01 pm
He’s not actually the sharpest spoon in the drawer
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 3:12 pm
well, THAT certain shows an extreme, one-sided, minimally considered evaluation of the situation.
The possibility that they could BOTH be at fault – and therefore, morally wrong – has obviously never entered your mind.
typical liberal.
fancypants September 20th, 2014 at 3:14 pm
The possibility that they could BOTH be at fault
———————————————————
lol
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 4:01 pm
they **both** could be to blame.
mea_mark September 20th, 2014 at 3:26 pm
Where did Anomaly say that the women was not at fault? She was pointing out that someone was blaming the incident on the deceased. She was not claiming anyone’s innocence. Again you are sounding condescending and reading into things, things that are not there.
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 3:42 pm
“Where did Anomaly say that the women was not at fault?”
“… this woman, who heroically save her baby’s life blame the victim, instead of the perpetrator.”
heroically saved the baby — heroes aren’t ‘at fault’
from the perpetrator — obviously blaming the guy, exclusively.
You need to understand: I am not blaming ANYone. I am not DEFENDING anyone. I have construed at least half a dozen possible scenarios from the limited details given in the article – some in which she is totally the victim, some in which she is actually the perpetrator, and some in which both of them were.
*MY* exclusive point is y’all have already drawn conclusions about who is to ‘blame’ — and find fault with anyone who disagrees… despite the fact that NONE of you actually know whether you’re right, or not. (just a reminder: I’ve already said *I* don’t know who is to blame)
but *I* am the one who comes off as ‘condescending”????
Anomaly 100 September 20th, 2014 at 3:28 pm
Another Republican confirms my original thought. You people blame the victim, instead of the perpetrator. What a sad mindset you have.
Enjoy your weekend!
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 3:44 pm
It is intellectually IMPOSSIBLE to ascertain that this women is the victim based on the very sketchy details given in the article.
I have compiled at least 1/2 dozen potential variables about how this played out, only some of which she was truly and completely a ‘victim.’
Anomaly 100 September 20th, 2014 at 4:32 pm
Well let’s see. She’s dead. He killed her. That makes her the victim.
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 4:45 pm
he’s dead, too….
Anomaly 100 September 20th, 2014 at 5:21 pm
REALLY? Thanks for the update!
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 2:48 pm
I’d like to present a singular ray of THOUGHT into the flow of this conversation, since y’all are about to take a swandive over the cliff of Reason:
1. she bears no responsibility for her DEATH.
2. she does bear some degree of responsibility for STAYing a relationship that was becoming a threat to her, and/or her daughter – and that she knew was becoming more threatening, under specific circumstances. THAT is where the issue of Stockholm syndrome and battered woman syndrome comes into play — NOT the end result.
Abusers KNOW how to emotionally manipulate. His behavior when sober, and apparent apologetic attitude after an encounter could easily offer a ‘counter-balance’ to the occasional drunken behavior. Such “pacifying” behavior is designed to set a person off their guard. She may have respected him for being a Marine – and pitied him for the sacrifices, hardships, and trauma he’d experienced while serving his country.
But: He was an ex-marine. A DRUNK ex-Marine. How does an ex-Marine respond when he feels threatened??
mea_mark September 20th, 2014 at 1:10 pm
So you were somehow able to deduce from the article that this man had a history of abuse and that this woman who was slain had ample opportunity and warning to flee. You are special if you can do that.
rokpaperskizzors September 20th, 2014 at 1:19 pm
And you are special kind of naive/stupid if you think a first time abuser would take such violent action. You are the quintessential sycophant that drives Liberaland’s success. Awesome.
jasperjava September 20th, 2014 at 2:23 pm
You have to laugh at right-wing idiots who don’t use the word “sycophant” in any kind of proper context, but just as a generic epithet. You obviously don’t know what the word means, just that it sounds insulting.
Thanks for confirming the general sense that conservatives are ignorant and stupid. The fact that you blame the victim for getting killed is just further proof of your general hatred towards women and your worship of violence.
tracey marie September 20th, 2014 at 3:05 pm
where does it say it does not happen the first time? You seem to have anger management issues
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 2:36 pm
1. abusers KNOW how to emotionally manipulate those whom they are abusing.
2. most abusers who do so while drunk do so EVERY time they are drunk. So, yes, if his level of abuse had **escalated** to shooting her in the head, she had already seen lesser levels of drunken, abusive behavior. The fact that she ” tried to defend herself with a baseball bat” because he became belligerent CLEARLY indicates she had **reason** to suspect physical assault. Most people don’t randomly grab a baseball bat for protection when having a ‘normal’ argument.
3. “You are special if you …were somehow able to deduce from the article that this man had a history of abuse.” Not really – he read the article, applied some foundational normal social parameters, and drew a logical conclusion.
Not ignorant. Not stupid. Pretty much the antithesis of both those terms.
Now, aren’t you glad you invited me to your site??
mea_mark September 20th, 2014 at 3:21 pm
Actually he didn’t read the article all the way through. He made assumptions that sound logical but clearly lack facts. There is nothing in the article or the linked article about past behavior. If you are going to speculate it is best to indicate you are speculating.
Yeah, glad you stopped by. I can see why some moderators might be quick to ban you though. You come across as condescending and can easily cause conflict within a discussion, some sites don’t like that.
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 3:28 pm
“Actually he didn’t read the article all the way through.”
how do you know that? this conclusion is NOT based on provable data.
“There is nothing in the article or the linked article about past behavior” this reasoning goes both ways.
“I can see why some moderators might be quick to ban you though.” I’ve already had one comment marked as spam. I assume that’s not your doing…???
“You come across as condescending and can easily cause conflict within a discussion, some sites don’t like that.” this logic also goes both ways.
How do you know I don’t actually have a PhD in psychology, and daily counsel abused women??? do you **know** whether or not my education and experience provides me with insights that other people don’t have?
Condescension and authority that comes from experience and superior training actually bear a great deal of similarity to one another.
mea_mark September 20th, 2014 at 4:52 pm
He said in one of his comments he didn’t read the article all the way through. I suppose he could be lying about that but that is what he said.
Like I said, you come across as condescending. Not that you are but that is how other people might easily take your comments. Maybe you should try and take a step back and look at what you write from the perspective of someone who might disagree with you. I was just making an observation and trying to be honest in helping you figure out why you seem to be getting banned so much.
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 5:03 pm
“He said in one of his comments he didn’t read the article all the way through” I read his comments: I either missed that completely (which is possible) or he went back and edited it between the time you read it, and I read his posts.
“Like I said, you come across as condescending…Maybe you should try and take a step back and look at what you write from the perspective of someone who might disagree with you”.
One of my other comments was marked as ‘spam’ – but it wasn’t. (and yet! I see other people insulting one another — which means they weren’t marked as spam!!)
I have read trollish comments; verbally and intellectually denigrating tirades that lambaste another people, other perspectives, and comments that are dripping with disdain and condemnation.
They are not removed, nor are their writers banned.
I don’t get banned because I am “come across” as condescending, cruel, disrespectful or mean – I see way worse behavior in other people, and their comments are not banned, nor are the people who write them.
Being banned is a power play, by someone who can, because they want to. in my case, that has ALWAYS been the reason.
mea_mark September 20th, 2014 at 5:14 pm
None of your comments here are marked as spam. I just checked the spam folder to make sure, they are not there.
From Rok — Thx for the correction. I stopped reading when LL invoked the reference to the “assault rifle” as the murder weapon. – just in case he edited it, my old screen of it was still up.
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 5:27 pm
“None of your comments here are marked as spam. I just checked the spam folder to make sure, they are not there.”
currently counting 1 marked as spam, one that’s been removed, after being marked as spam (2 hours ago), and there is at least one other that WAS marked as spam (although that seems to have been lifted)
re: Rok — read that comment; interpreted it differently.
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 5:53 pm
and NOW the rubber meats the road (pun intended)
on your lauded site, where you a moderator, I’m getting trolled AND stalked by one tracey marie, to whom I have directly, thrice requested to leave me alone.
her comments are not even an attempted pretense of staying on topic. She is openly mocking, insulting, and more than condescending.
should I flag her? as moderator, will you interject? what happens next?
Anomaly 100 September 20th, 2014 at 6:26 pm
You can flag her all you like. She will not be banned.
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 6:30 pm
not by you, perhaps. But does that mean other moderators (mea mark) do not have any say or authority to ban, independently of what you think?
Anomaly 100 September 20th, 2014 at 6:40 pm
Our mods, including our Conservative mod, can use their own discretion. That said, I think I know Mark a little better than you do. I can guarantee you that he will not ban her.
You’re the trolly one.
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 7:06 pm
fyi: this comment conclusively proves the point I was making to mark on another thread.
thanks bunches!
mea_mark September 20th, 2014 at 6:53 pm
FYI, Anomaly is one of the hosts, this her site. I am out of this, at this point, of my own discretion. We do that as moderators sometimes.
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 7:11 pm
” I moderate at a liberal site and I think we do good a pretty good job. You might want to check my profile and come on over and give us a look see.”
gave a look see. your standards are… well, pretty much no different than any one else’s!!
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 3:58 pm
“So you were somehow able to deduce from the article that this man had a history of abuse…”
after reading this article 5 times, I went back and read the title.
“Mother Shot In Head While Protecting Baby From Drunken, ~~~Abusive~~~ Father”
I think I know where rok derived his belief that the father had a history of abusive behavior…
More accurate terms would have been ‘drunken ex-marine” or “drunken husband” or even “angry drunk.”
mea_mark September 20th, 2014 at 4:09 pm
Well, he was certainly being abusive at the time he killed his wife. That does not state anything about past behavior. It is likely though.
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 4:12 pm
abusive — or having a PTS flash-back???
I am now up to 9 potential scenarios about how this played out.
He acted violently – NO doubt about that fact.
Abusive, however, can be relevant to the moment, or implies a long-term behavior pattern. The choice of words is significant, because certain types of words have a sub-conscious connotation, that actually provoke people to react a certain way, intellectually and emotionally.
Sydney September 20th, 2014 at 1:10 pm
The argument may very well have been about her leaving which is the most dangerous time for a woman in an abused relationship.
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 2:39 pm
Indeed; or, about his alcohol consumption. or that she was leaving him BECAUSE of his alcohol consumption.
Based on his reaction subsequent, you could have a very valid point.
whatthe46 September 20th, 2014 at 4:29 pm
even when there is no argument. he could very well come home to find her gone and some will stop at nothing to find her. not all women have the resources to leave the city or state.
Sydney September 20th, 2014 at 4:32 pm
Agree
tracey marie September 20th, 2014 at 3:04 pm
no pass, you obviously have a black white mind set. Nuanace might help you become a grown up
tracey marie September 20th, 2014 at 3:08 pm
brietbart is that way———-> angry inbred people like you are the biggest problem in this country
GOTP Lemmings September 20th, 2014 at 11:50 pm
Only in your peabrain.
CMathues September 22nd, 2014 at 2:14 pm
You are a freaking idiot! True laziness comes from the likes of you…too damny lazy to extend your tiny mind to have a complete thought based on facts….it is much easier for low lifes like yourself to hold a woman responsible for a man’s behavior…..stick your head back up your ass, it belongs there.
rokpaperskizzors October 5th, 2014 at 10:01 am
Based on your reaction to my comment, you failed to remotely consider there is an alternate opinion that might be uncomfortable for you. Women are frequently caught in seemingly impossible situations with bad men/husbands/significant others. The point no one ignored here is there are ample resources in this day and age that provide escape from abusive and dangerous relationships. Was this a horrible tragedy? You bet. Was it avoidable? If you say “no” then you have completely abandoned the progressive/feminist ideology and believe that women are still and will be forever perpetual victims because they are too physically weak, too weak willed or just too mentally abused to exercise the judgement necessary to run from the burning building of their unfortunate circumstances. That is all. There was no intended show of lack of compassion for this poor woman and the POS that killed her. Glad he used his “assault rifle” and ended his own worthless life.
M D Reese September 20th, 2014 at 12:16 pm
I hope that child ends up with a wonderful family. What a way to start your life.
tiredoftea September 20th, 2014 at 2:58 pm
Thank’s NRA for all you do to protect families!
rokpaperskizzors September 20th, 2014 at 9:12 pm
The NRA was founded in 1871 and is the old civil rights organization in the US. It was originally organized to ensure that freed slaves would have access to guns to protect themselves from retribution by pro slavery confederates after the war of Northern Aggression was settled at Appomattox.
tiredoftea September 20th, 2014 at 9:14 pm
Uhh, no, it isn’t and wasn’t. You’re an idiot.
rokpaperskizzors September 20th, 2014 at 9:22 pm
Your childish ad homonym insults aside please provide facts that refute what I know to be fact. Please don’t offer up the revisionist wishful history of the liberal narrative that the NRA was founded by aliens that were the original KKK and that the constitution doesn’t recognize the individual’s right to keep and bear arms.
tiredoftea September 20th, 2014 at 9:37 pm
I don’t do homework for anyone who not only doesn’t understand the meaning of “ad hominem”, but can’t spell it! Go back to whichever fringe troll site you come from and stay there until you are fit for intelligent postings, likely never.
rokpaperskizzors September 20th, 2014 at 10:06 pm
Ok. That’s enough. You have roundly defeated me . I hope everyone enjoys the future we all have a hand in creating.
rokpaperskizzors September 20th, 2014 at 10:37 pm
Ok. I’ve spell checked myself are we back on track now with this dance? lol
tracey marie September 20th, 2014 at 3:03 pm
I take exception with the “glamour” pic versus the cell phone pic of the 2 involved. Obviously he has issues, ptsd or other problems and she still had a child with him. Otherwise, fck the NRA for making guns so available to all, even the mentally unstable
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 3:05 pm
Reading several comments from all you people.
First off, the flagrant one-dimensional way you look at this is repulsive.
Second, I have a background in theatre, and psychology. I have actually been TRAINED to take pieces of evidence, and construct a LOGICAL evaluation of a person’s motivation, character, and background.
You people — fixate on the gun… oh, my giddy aunt — the GUN was not the problem.
Marines – trained to be strong. Trained to think of themselves as not only strong, but borderline invincible.And Marines come from a very specific type of people. Dude comes home from whatever military service he provided, doesn’t recognize or, can’t admit to a mild case of PTS – cuz he’s a MARINE — they *tough*.
He’s fine, most of the time – except when he drinks. Then his defense go down; he reacts, he doesn’t think.
The decisive factor in this scenario is NOT the gun — it is the ALCOHOL.
fancypants September 20th, 2014 at 3:12 pm
in other words this marine was having a domestic war with himself until alcohol took over ?
something tells me this pos has a history of losing his temper Drunk or not
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 3:20 pm
Marines don’t ‘lose their temper” — they funnel it.
The article has little background on recent events in his or her life, and whether or not the dude had ever been diagnosed or treated for Post-Traumatic Stress, yes: he actually could have been ‘at war’ with himself.
Which is a recipe for disaster when drunk, in an argument with a woman who is holding a baseball bat, no matter WHAT else has been going on.
fancypants September 20th, 2014 at 3:22 pm
you seem to be hell bent on defending his actions
I wish you luck
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 3:35 pm
I’m not defending his actions OR her actions. (you’ll notice I am also not incorporating the actions of the 3rd person, at all)
This incident didn’t spring full-grown from a vacuum.
This is the END result — the beginning could have started hours, days, or even months ago, and this was the culmination. Without actual FACTS from which to ascertain what was really going on for the last 19 months, there is no way to say WHO instigated this event.
My point is: y’all are making accusations, conclusions, and berating one another, when LOGICALLY — every single opinion offered is as valid as the next – and they are ALL worthless, since absolutely none of us KNOWS what was actually going on.
fancypants September 20th, 2014 at 4:12 pm
one had a deadly weapon and military training and the other didn’t
yea that’s a fair fight ….
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 4:16 pm
didn’t say it was a ‘fair fight’.
but what if *he* was being intentionally manipulated and it got out of hand? what if she was just as drunk as he was?
What if pulling out the baseball bat provoked him to a ‘fight or flight’ adrenaline -fueled anger response which triggered undiagnosed Post Traumatic Stress?
His response is externally as similar to a combat scenario as it is to a power-hungry abuser.
Not knowing the details is problematic. Making assumptions about who is to blame without those details is just… (**insert any word that doesn’t mean ‘brilliant’ here**)…
Carla Akins September 20th, 2014 at 4:31 pm
I lifted this paragraph directly from an educational site, one you should consider visiting.
http://stoprelationshipabuse.org/educated/avoiding-victim-blaming/
Your statement assumes that the victim is equally to blame for the abuse, when in reality, abuse is a conscious choice made by the abuser. Abusers have a choice in how they react to their partner’s actions. Options besides abuse include: walking away, talking in the moment, respectfully explaining why an action is frustrating, breaking up, etc. Additionally, abuse is not about individual actions that incite the abuser to hurt the victim/survivor, but rather about the abuser’s feelings of entitlement to do whatever s/he wants to his/her partner.When friends and family remain neutral about the abuse and say that both people need to change, they are taking away responsibility from the perpetrator, thereby colluding with/supporting the abusive partner and making it less likely that the survivor will seek support.
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 4:42 pm
I’m not saying he is to blame.
I also don’t automatically assume an abused woman is 100% innocent. MOST are. I know these facts.
I also know a few others facts that could contribute to this scenario – like Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, alcohol consumption, and some other components of relationships that might be playing a factor in all of this.
Carla Akins September 20th, 2014 at 5:52 pm
I think you missed the point. It is his fault, he’s an abuser and every single time you make any reference that she may have been responsible for his behavior – provoked him somehow – you excuse his behavior. The fact that you are looking for some “other” reason, quite honestly makes you part of the problem. A victim can not and should not be held responsible for her abuser’s behavior. People, such as yourself that that make excuses or think the victim provoked the attack are either outright misogynists or too uncomfortable with the truth.
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 6:01 pm
I have compiled a dozen POSSIBLE scenarios, based on the facts –
was he violent, in this scenario? absolutely.
am I excusing THIS behavior? no – I’m not.
is it highly likely he has been abusive in the past? absolutely.
have I made comments that excuse potential past abuse? absolutely not – if you read ALL my comments, you’ll see that.
I have ALSO said, repeatedly, there are MANY possible causalities that could have resulted in this outcome.
here’s one: he had a violent flash back due to Post-traumatic stress. Is he completely to blame if he had a psychotic break? No – he’s as much a victim of circumstance as she is.
Depending on whether he had PST, and depending on whether it was diagnosed OR NOT, he was on meds or NOT, they were both drinking, OR NOT…
I’m up to 15 scenarios this could have played out. Some in which she is 100% the victim; some in which HE is as much a victim as she is; some in which she is as much a perpetrator as he was.
“The fact that you are looking for some “other” reason, quite honestly makes you part of the problem.” The fact that you think you KNOW what happened when there are NO DETAILS makes you than condescending and self-righteous
or your own past experiences doing the talking…
Carla Akins September 20th, 2014 at 6:14 pm
You’re right about one thing, I do know what I’m talking about. This is not a gender-based assumption; he was bigger, stronger and had a history of abuse. Perhaps it was PTSD, it doesn’t relieve him of complete responsibility for what happened here regardless of how unfortunate. Only the person committing the act is responsible, provocation is not a mitigating factor in responsibility. It’s just that simple. Being drunk and wearing a mini skirt doesn’t mean you’re responsible for being raped and a victim of abuse is not responsible for her batterer’s behavior. You can think of 30 different scenarios – it doesn’t change this fact.
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 6:22 pm
“a victim of abuse is not responsible for her batterer’s behavior.”
The sword cuts both ways. What *IF* she was the abuser, and he had a full blown nuclear meltdown after a night — or week, or 18 months – of nagging???
Abuse can be verbal, or physical. It can be intellectual, emotional, or spiritual. Without additional facts about HER behavior, pointing the finger at him is its own form of ‘abuse’.
You empathize with her. I don’t. Nor, however, do I empathize with *him*. I look at BOTH of them, I look at BOTH of their behavior, and I say, “There is something wrong here – much more ‘wrong’ than just the end result.”
My *singular* point is: without knowing ALL the facts, the “conclusive” conclusions to which people are coming do not deserve the vehement attack or defense you people are dedicating to them.
Carla Akins September 20th, 2014 at 6:44 pm
OMG -you do realize that you just said (out loud) that her nagging could have driven him to shoot and kill her. Forget it, you do not understand the meaning of words. Painting a dead mother as the (possible) reason this happened is unforgivable. You need a course in cognitive thinking, or a therapist. I hope you do not have children that may one day find themselves in this situation as your outlook would doom therm.
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 7:09 pm
nice intellectual rebuttal. I’m so glad I took notes (end sarcasm).
Anomaly 100 September 20th, 2014 at 7:51 pm
You’re done here. Good night!
whatthe46 September 20th, 2014 at 4:41 pm
“What if pulling out the baseball bat provoked him…” well, grabing a baseball bat was likely her only way to defend herself from any blows that came or were to come. to get a bat would indicate that she had been through that before. in many cases, (given they had a new baby) she may have believed because she had the child in her arms he wouldn’t have harmed her. its sad no matter how you look at it.
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 4:48 pm
sad, yes.
but if she’s thought she needed, “to defend herself from any blows that came or were to come” then picking up both a bat AND a baby…
I see more than “sad”.
whatthe46 September 20th, 2014 at 5:12 pm
picking up the bat was for defense. picking up the baby was her way of also protecting her. she ran into the bathroom to get away. the rest was his choice. she managed to separate herself and baby. but, that wasn’t good enough for him.
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 5:23 pm
I’m up to an even dozen scenarios in which this could have played out — one of which includes her using the baby as a shield – and then picking up the bat when picking up the baby didn’t work.
The ending is truly tragic. But absolutely no one knows what actually happened before that lead to the outcome. It’d be kind of refreshing if you people would stop pretending like you did know.
whatthe46 September 20th, 2014 at 5:32 pm
i really don’t give a care what led up to the fight. one thing for certain is that she tried to separate herself from him and he made the decision to get a gun and break the door in and shoot her. i’m not pretending that happened.
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 5:45 pm
gave this some serious thought.
here’s my question: if her goal was to ” separate herself from him” — why didn’t she do so **before** she picked up the baseball bat?
edmeyer_able September 20th, 2014 at 5:59 pm
Maybe it was his “weapon of choice”.
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 6:05 pm
that’s not an answer to the question I posed.
if her goal was to ” separate herself from him” — why didn’t she leave the room, or the house, BEFORE she picked up the baseball bat?
Maybe she did; maybe in her attempt to leave, he aggressively tried to stop her, and she HAD to pick up the baseball bat.
But if she **didn’t** try to leave BEFORE picking up the baseball bat, this scenario has a completely different context.
edmeyer_able September 20th, 2014 at 6:07 pm
What I meant was he had used the bat against her in the past and wanted to remove it from his arsenal.
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 6:10 pm
valid point: with that option, I am now up to 18 potential scenarios that might have occurred that lead to that outcome.
whatthe46 September 20th, 2014 at 6:34 pm
i’m sorry, but there’s only one scenario that led up to her murder, he grabbed a gun and shot her in the head out of anger. period. i don’t care what pissed him off, that outcome wasn’t necessary.
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 7:04 pm
“one scenario that led up to her murder, he grabbed a gun and shot her in the head out of anger”
no – that is the outcome — not the scenario that lead up to it.
whatthe46 September 20th, 2014 at 6:30 pm
that would depend on where they were in the house. were they in a bedroom where her only escape was a closet or bathroom. it could be very well that he blocked her escape through the bedroom door. as far as the bat, hell, if a man is hitting my ass, you better believe i’m going to grab the nearest thing to use to protect myself. nothing wrong with her getting the bat and running for cover. “why didn’t…” why didn’t he just leave her the fk alone. again, he had to break the door down to get to her.
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 7:03 pm
“depends on where they were in the house”
indeed. That is a hugely important point.
but you assume she picked up the bat BECAUSE he was already hitting her — that may not be the case.
“why didn’t he leave her alone” again, assumes he was the exclusive aggressor. Arguments CAN be a tango.
whatthe46 September 20th, 2014 at 7:24 pm
assumes? he aggressively knocked in the door and shot her in the head. there’s no tango.
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 7:36 pm
let’s cut to the chase — you think I’m wrong.
I think you don’t know ALL the facts.
The conclusion to which you have come *could* be correct. I have also come to the same conclusion about the events.
I have, however, realized that there could be well over a dozen ways this scenario played out.
That – alone – is the issue here. I don’t whole-heartedly agree with your single conclusion.
By contrast: you agree with one of my 18 conclusions about the way things panned out.
whatthe46 September 20th, 2014 at 8:03 pm
so the mother’s lying?
Anomaly 100 September 20th, 2014 at 6:38 pm
And she picked up that baby and saved her daughter’s life.
You’re an awful person.
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 7:05 pm
“You’re an awful person.”
always indicative of the quality of the site when the mods stoop to name calling!
edmeyer_able September 20th, 2014 at 7:11 pm
What if I say it, why are you continuing to beat this horse, maybe you should ask yourself that question?
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 7:16 pm
… *smirks* I already know the answer to that question.
i think the real issue is – YOU want to know why I’m “continuing to beat this horse…”
edmeyer_able September 20th, 2014 at 7:18 pm
Not really, I just think you have an ego that is to big to be contained.
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 7:19 pm
not compared to some…
edmeyer_able September 20th, 2014 at 7:22 pm
All things are relative.
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 7:31 pm
lololololol…
I looked up the definition of ‘relative’ (considered in relation or in proportion to something else).
yes, all things are relative — the issue is whether a person ACTUALLY understands the ‘proportion’ to something else…
in my experience — people usually don’t understand that proportion.
edmeyer_able September 20th, 2014 at 7:34 pm
I can only assume you must associate w/some real winners.
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 7:37 pm
on-line, that’s all I ever meet…
Anomaly 100 September 20th, 2014 at 7:22 pm
You came here wanting to get banned. I can read your comment history.
You’ve almost accomplished your goal. Don’t bother our readers again. You can discuss issues with them but be polite.
That is your only warning.
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 7:28 pm
No, I came here because mea-mark said that he “moderates at a liberal site and I think we do good a pretty good job. You might want to check my profile and come on over and give us a look see.”
I was invited. I came here to see if anything mark said about this site was accurate.
Anomaly 100 September 20th, 2014 at 7:36 pm
I already know why you’re here. I read your comment history.
I told you what will happen if you continue being disrespectful of our readers. Count on it.
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 7:39 pm
Yes, you’ve read THIS comment history.
But did you read the OTHER thread?
Anomaly 100 September 20th, 2014 at 7:41 pm
Stop whining about other people’s comments when you’ve left countless dubious comments. I know, you’re a victim, right?
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 7:46 pm
” I know, you’re a victim, right?” that’s the comment you want to make, on THIS thread???????????????
and fyi: I’m talking about my OTHER exchange w/ mea mark, on a completely different site… about this site.
apparently, you don’t know about that one.
whatthe46 September 20th, 2014 at 4:22 pm
there is one thing that’s absolutely clear, he got a gun and chased after her. he knew what he did was so wrong that he killed himself and he even had no regard for the baby. unfortunately he didn’t get whatever help he needed a long time ago.
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 4:27 pm
“unfortunately he didn’t get whatever help he needed a long time ago.”
which POTENTIALLY makes him as much a victim, as she MIGHT have been.
tracey marie September 20th, 2014 at 5:35 pm
lol, marines lose their tempers just like all other people. Stop posting such innane defense of military personel
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 5:38 pm
You and your comment comes off as insulting, condescending, and trollish.
tracey marie September 20th, 2014 at 5:40 pm
lol, no it is fact. The only one being insulting is you, insulting our intelligence with your anger and spin
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 5:42 pm
And that is the 3rd comment in a few seconds that comes off to me as insulting, condescending, and trollish. Only now, I’m adding disdainful, intentionally provocative, and argumentative to my list.
please don’t comment to me, again. I think you’re annoying, mean-spirited and don’t have anything intellectually valuable to offer.
tracey marie September 20th, 2014 at 5:44 pm
LOL, you assumed I care how you feel or what you think
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 5:45 pm
“you assumed I care how you feel or what you think” No – I didn’t.
This will be the second time I have asked you to not post to me.
tracey marie September 20th, 2014 at 5:45 pm
Good
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 5:47 pm
This is now constitutes the third time in a few minutes I am asking you to stop posting to me.
You are not interacting in an ‘intelligent debate or exchange of ideas” Now, you are trolling me in a stalkerish manner.
You need to back off.
tracey marie September 20th, 2014 at 6:40 pm
rotflmao…you mean stop responding to your whiny posts
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 7:05 pm
Four.
tracey marie September 20th, 2014 at 7:08 pm
lol, you again…I think I have to ask you to stop trying to start conversations with me
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 7:13 pm
Why would I want to converse with *you*???
tracey marie September 20th, 2014 at 7:33 pm
rotflmao
rg9rts September 21st, 2014 at 7:29 am
No excuse…drunken jarhead…
whatthe46 September 20th, 2014 at 4:54 pm
rokpap… just so you know, i had 2 cousins that were in very abusive relationships, each left many times only to go back. the last time they each left they were killed. 1 in front of my great-grandmother’s home and the other in front of her 7 nd 8 y/o daughters at her new apartment. each time a woman leaves it can be just as dangerous as staying, if not worse.
whatthe46 September 20th, 2014 at 4:57 pm
by the way, nothing happened to the one that murdered my cousin in front of my grandmothers home (this was in the 70’s by the way) and the other, well, he was killed by another woman that he abused. she served him his just deserts when he was asleep.
tracey marie September 20th, 2014 at 5:34 pm
I am sorry for your loss, many people are extremely ignorant when it comes to abuse
whatthe46 September 20th, 2014 at 6:19 pm
thank you.
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 5:37 pm
that’s the problem with abusive relationships – the only time it is 100% ‘safe’ to leave is the FIRST time it happens – and most abused women don’t realize that.
tracey marie September 20th, 2014 at 5:39 pm
lol, is that your theater training helping you out. puleeeze
Linda B. Williams September 20th, 2014 at 5:40 pm
That is now the second comment, in a few seconds, that has come off as insulting, condescending, and trollish.
Hirightnow September 20th, 2014 at 8:12 pm
Revised definition of insanity:
Staying in the same abusive relationship and expecting the abuser to change.
tracey marie September 20th, 2014 at 8:49 pm
obviously you have no clue or wish to educate yourself