December 9, 2014 11:40 am -

[su_right_ad]Torture during the Bush administration was more brutal than originally thought, and didn’t work. There was no “ticking time bomb” information derived from torture.

The CIA immediately hit back at the report, saying in a statement that the program was “effective” and substantially helped its understanding of al Qaeda’s tactical operations and goals. President Barack Obama said the report reinforced his view that the harsh interrogation methods “were not only inconsistent with our values as nation, they did not serve our broader counterterrorism efforts or our national security interests.”

In its most graphic details, an executive summary of the report finds that conditions for detainees at top secret interrogation sites were much harsher than the CIA has previously admitted. It finds that high value detainees were subjected to methods like waterboarding and sleep deprivation “in near nonstop fashion for days or weeks at a time.”

“In many cases, the most aggressive techniques were used immediately, in combination and non-stop,” the report says. “Sleep deprivation involved keeping detainees awake for up to 180 hours, usually standing or in painful stress positions, at times with their hands shackled above their heads.”

In one facility, a detainee was said to have died of hypothermia after being held “partially nude” and chained to a concrete floor, while at other times, naked prisoners were hooded and dragged up and down corridors while being slapped and punched.

Multiple CIA detainees subjected to the techniques suffered from hallucinations, paranoia, insomnia and tried to mutilate themselves, the report says.[su_csky_ad]

D.B. Hirsch
D.B. Hirsch is a political activist, news junkie, and retired ad copy writer and spin doctor. He lives in Brooklyn, New York.

78 responses to Torture Report: CIA Tactics Were Brutal And Didn’t Work

  1. Pilotshark December 9th, 2014 at 11:45 am

    As if we didn’t know that torture doesn’t work!
    we know and have known that the information you get is not good or reliable. waste of time in getting the information needed.

  2. edmeyer_able December 9th, 2014 at 11:57 am

    Thanks georgie for the pain you have caused U S citizens for generations to come. I truly hope your legacy will reflect this for as long as our country endures.

    • rational_thinking_one December 9th, 2014 at 1:09 pm

      Yes, because the US was so loved by the Muslim community prior to this. This story reminds us that liberals were just as against President Bush then as conservatives are now of President Obama. Simple minded people on both sides of the aisle have no clue what it takes to run the greatest, most powerful nation in the World and easily resort to second guessing… all the while they are responsible for nothing of significance in their own personal lives.

      • edmeyer_able December 9th, 2014 at 1:11 pm

        To insignificant for anything but this as a reply.

        • rational_thinking_one December 9th, 2014 at 1:12 pm

          Like I said “Simple minded… “

      • tiredoftea December 9th, 2014 at 1:21 pm

        Speaking of simple minded, what part of torture is immoral, against the law, not to mention, ineffective is eluding you here?

        • rational_thinking_one December 9th, 2014 at 1:25 pm

          Morality is subjective. Abortion is immoral, right? Or not worshiping Jesus Christ? You might say no, conservatives might say yes. And knowing something’s effectiveness after the fact is hindsight. No one knew at the time that the torture was not effective. And what if it did save hundreds of thousands of lives from another terrorist attack?

          • tiredoftea December 9th, 2014 at 1:33 pm

            “…knowing something’s effectiveness after the fact is hindsight. No one knew at the time that the torture was not effective.” No, it was well known prior to W’s and Cheney cynical efforts to rebrand torture as “enhanced interrogation”.

          • burqa December 9th, 2014 at 4:03 pm

            Sure it was.

            The sad thing is that the effectiveness and great success of humane approaches are the techniques of the most successful interrogators in history. They are studied at interrogation schools for our military.
            Torture and abuse of prisoners mostly yield false confessions, particularly the program adopted by the Bush administration. It was taken lock, stock, and barrel from the Red Chinese and North Koreans who elicited false confessions from American POWs during the Korean War.

            “WASHINGTON: The military trainers who came to Guantánamo Bay in December 2002 based an entire interrogation class on a chart showing the effects of “coercive management techniques” for possible use on prisoners, including “sleep deprivation,” “prolonged constraint,” and “exposure.”
            What the trainers did not say, and may not have known, was that their chart had been copied verbatim from a 1957 Air Force study of Chinese Communist techniques used during the Korean War to obtain confessions, many of them false, from American prisoners.
            The recycled chart is the latest and most vivid evidence of the way Communist interrogation methods that the United States long described as torture became the basis for interrogations both by the military at the base at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, and by the Central Intelligence Agency. …”

            – “China inspired interrogations at Guantánamo,” by Scott Shane, International Herald-Tribune, July 2, 2008

          • tiredoftea December 9th, 2014 at 4:12 pm

            Yup. Only the persistently ignorant and morally bankrupt want torture to work.

          • burqa December 9th, 2014 at 3:56 pm

            Ok, so you think torture and abuse of prisoners is moral.

          • rational_thinking_one December 9th, 2014 at 4:48 pm

            It is moral to the capturer if they believe that it will save lives. It may not be moral to me or you, but to them it is. And to say what you believe versus actual people trying to thwart attacks is Monday a.m. quarterbacking. If the President and the CIA thought they were saving lives, then that’s they’re call. It’s easy to second guess now.

  3. fahvel December 9th, 2014 at 12:00 pm

    and keep pressing the bush aspect of this non stop – possible consequences for l’il george and also maybe an end to his smarter brother’s career – the bush dynasty potential is weird.

  4. tiredoftea December 9th, 2014 at 12:28 pm

    The war crimes trial for W’s administration is scheduled for, when?

    • Pilotshark December 9th, 2014 at 12:31 pm

      it has been a while since we hear from old dead eye dick. think he is keeping his head low, and a private jet fueled and ready to go.

    • rational_thinking_one December 9th, 2014 at 1:16 pm

      Maybe you should adopt a former terrorist for Christmas.

      • tiredoftea December 9th, 2014 at 1:19 pm

        I would, but Darth Cheney is rarely seen outside of Wyoming anymore.

        • rational_thinking_one December 9th, 2014 at 1:20 pm

          I see that your reasoning is no better than the Tea-turds that compare President Obama to Hitler.

          • tiredoftea December 9th, 2014 at 1:23 pm

            No, Darth has admitted that he advocated and authorized torture, so the reasoning is solid.

          • rational_thinking_one December 9th, 2014 at 1:26 pm

            You guys are reminding me why I stay in the middle. Conservatives are too dumb and righteous and liberals are too academic and weak.

  5. rational_thinking_one December 9th, 2014 at 1:15 pm

    Second guessing is easy. But as I recall, not too many people were worried about fuzzy, feel good stories on 9/12/01. Liberals shouldn’t be so hypocritical. We don’t like it much when President Obama’s actions are easily second guessed by Conservatives. Let’s face it: it’s not easy being the President of the United States. Not one of them has a perfect record yet.

    • tiredoftea December 9th, 2014 at 1:28 pm

      It’s especially easy when it was known that torture was ineffective. The CIA knew it in the fifties. It’s illegal and unequivocally immoral.

      • rational_thinking_one December 9th, 2014 at 1:31 pm

        So says you. Morality is in the eyes of the beholder.

        • tiredoftea December 9th, 2014 at 1:34 pm

          And, laws are made to be obeyed and enforced. If your sense of morality, like Cheney and W is so weak as to condone torture, then you are as pathetic an example of humanity as they are.

          • rational_thinking_one December 9th, 2014 at 1:38 pm

            Wow! That’s a strong statement coming from someone with “Mod” next to their name. Such a vicious attack from such an all loving liberal mind, huh?

          • ChrisVosburg December 9th, 2014 at 1:59 pm

            I think tea’s criticism is appropriate. You come in here in with bullshit about “second thoughts” as if none of the people regularly reading and commenting here had a problem with torture back in 2002, and I strongly suspect you’re merely trying to excuse your own enthusiasm for the use of torture back then.

            Go use something else for a mirror, okay?

          • rational_thinking_one December 9th, 2014 at 2:15 pm

            Like I said numerous times: simple minded people second guessing Presidential actions. You guys are no different than the Tea Party nuts that second guess President Obama’s every move.

            And are we really that upset about a little simulated drowning to Khalid Shaikh Mohammed? I mean, he masterminded 9/11. C’mon?! Liberals are pussies!

          • edmeyer_able December 9th, 2014 at 2:20 pm

            No insults in that post either.

          • ChrisVosburg December 9th, 2014 at 2:36 pm

            Although I can’t speak for others here, I can tell you that I personally am, and was, vociferously opposed to the use of torture for any reason.

            Although you describe yourself as “in the middle,” I think it’s painfully obvious that you are merely on the fence. Although you prefer to see it as being above the fray, you’re there because you lack the courage to firmly hold any convictions– comfortable to be opposed to a given behavior until it becomes inconvenient to do so.

            I was right about you and an erstwhile support for torture, wasn’t I?

          • rational_thinking_one December 9th, 2014 at 2:44 pm

            I have no problem with the torture of known terrorist. You live in flower power land whereby everyone talks about their feelings and everything just gets better.

          • ChrisVosburg December 9th, 2014 at 2:56 pm

            I have no problem with the torture of known terrorist.

            And that is despite repeatedly being apprised of the simple and obvious fact that a victim of torture will tell you anything he thinks you want to hear, rendering the technique useless as a means of gaining intelligence.

            Which, unless you can suggest otherwise, leaves us with the horrific conclusion that you like torturing people for another reason, such as an enthusiasm for sadism.

          • Anomaly 100 December 9th, 2014 at 3:28 pm

            I deleted your other comment. Don’t do that again.

          • rational_thinking_one December 9th, 2014 at 3:48 pm

            Do what?

          • Anomaly 100 December 9th, 2014 at 4:12 pm

            If I repeated your previous comment then I wouldn’t have to delete it. You don’t know what you wrote?

          • rational_thinking_one December 9th, 2014 at 4:27 pm

            I honestly don’t. But I do apologize if it broke a rule. I really didn’t think anything I posted today had any profanities or derogatory.

          • Anomaly 100 December 9th, 2014 at 5:12 pm

            You’re acting very naive for something that advocates torturing human beings without even a trial.

            You came to a liberal site to say, “Liberals are pussies!”

            I wouldn’t go to your house and call Conservatives a bunch of douchebags.

          • rational_thinking_one December 9th, 2014 at 5:33 pm

            Ahhh!!! Now I remember. But I did say something derogatory about Tea-publicans, didn’t I? And am I NOT a conservative. I would vote for President Obama a million times more. I despise the ignorance and bigotry of the tea party/GOP. I agree with this board most of the time. I started out questioning the arm chair quarterbacking. I don’t think it’s as easy as normal citizens looking at facts after they happen and question the highest office of the Land. Maybe I have an affinity for the Office.

            And sorry for my offense.

          • edmeyer_able December 9th, 2014 at 5:44 pm

            It is not about ‘an affinity for the Office” it’s about a rule of law we signed and hold the rest of the world accountable for, which thanks to bush we can no longer do w/o his prosecution.
            Why you refuse to acknowledge this is beyond me..

          • rational_thinking_one December 9th, 2014 at 5:48 pm

            Don’t you see? It wouldn’t have mattered who was in office at the time. Do you think Gore or Kerry would have stopped this? What sort of things do you think the CIA was involved in under Clinton and Carter? And for god’s sake Kennedy?

            It’s not as easy as you all make it sound. That’s all I’m saying.

          • edmeyer_able December 9th, 2014 at 5:50 pm

            It wasn’t even the cia it was handed off to “private contractors” who were paid millions for lying about the results, show me where there is an iota of proof that any other admin was involved in the systematic torture of prisoners.

          • rational_thinking_one December 9th, 2014 at 5:52 pm

            Geez. You are naive. If we’d have had an ounce of the transparency and documentation in the ’60s as we do now, you’d all cringe at what was done to the VietCong. Not saying it was right. Just that war is hell. And to second guess after the fact is cheap.

          • edmeyer_able December 9th, 2014 at 5:55 pm

            First you say Kerry and Gore and now you jump back 50 years, note I said systematic and with the blessing of potus and #2.
            This is why I hate arguing w/trolls.

          • rational_thinking_one December 9th, 2014 at 5:56 pm

            50 years was the last major war.

          • edmeyer_able December 9th, 2014 at 5:57 pm

            No 70 years was if you want WAR, otherwise count iraq and ghani.

            And your last post was just more obfuscation of the subject.

          • Anomaly 100 December 9th, 2014 at 6:47 pm

            I don’t care if it comes from a Republican or Democrat. But when others come to a liberal site to say derogatory things about liberals, then we consider them to be trolls.

            We delete liberal comments, too.

          • tracey marie December 9th, 2014 at 7:06 pm

            I can attest to that fact

          • ChrisVosburg December 9th, 2014 at 11:37 pm

            I don’t mind being called a pussy. Call me Chrissy, and you die. 🙂

          • ChrisVosburg December 9th, 2014 at 11:47 pm

            Okay, maybe before your time, it’s an Animaniacs ref: the Warner Sister, Dot Warner, used to say often that she was “Dot. Just Dot. Call me Dotty and you die.” with a sweet smile.

          • Bunya December 9th, 2014 at 2:41 pm

            Just “a little simulated drowning”, huh? Is that why Shawn Hannity refuses to be water boarded? After all, it’s “just a little simulated drowning”.

          • rational_thinking_one December 9th, 2014 at 2:45 pm

            Maybe because he didn’t mastermind a terrorist attack.

          • Roctuna December 9th, 2014 at 4:16 pm

            Hannity and the rest at faux perform terrorist attacks on a daily basis disguised as news and opinion.

          • rational_thinking_one December 9th, 2014 at 4:27 pm

            I agree with you on that. I am no fan of Hannity or Fox.

          • tracey marie December 9th, 2014 at 2:56 pm

            you are teabagg

          • tracey marie December 9th, 2014 at 2:55 pm

            go back to C&L and troll

          • burqa December 9th, 2014 at 3:52 pm

            In a post that has, alas, disappeared, you said something about “simulated drowning.”
            I like to go to authoritative sources.
            I see you have none.
            Intelligence officer and SERE school instructor Malcolm Nance had a few things to say about “simulated drowning”:

            There is nothing simulated about waterboarding at all. I mean come on. Do we have to whip out the Dominican’s torture manuals to go back and show you how really efficient waterboarding is done? Do I have to take you to the S-21 prison camp in Cambodia and show you a board as used by torturers? There is no simulation here. It’s controlled drowning. Water is entering your system. It can overload your ability to gag it out. It does enter your lungs when put through the process long enough. You can die on the waterboard if your team is inefficient or ineffective.
            That’s why there is a doctor watching the procedure. That’s why you have a staff psychologist watching the procedure. That’s why the watch officer is carefully watching how you’re strapped in, evaluating how fast they can get you out. And when it’s time to come off, you’re unstrapped, and then you get your opportunity to puke up your guts and move on.
            But there is nothing simulated about this. And it’s insulting to the process. It’s made to grey the waters. And this is — there is nothing grey about waterboarding. As used as an interrogation technique with the intent to coerce a victim who is unwitting or unwilling, it is a torture, and it has been a torture throughout history. …”


          • AnthonyLook December 11th, 2014 at 1:19 am

            You misspelled your name, forgot the “ir”.

        • tracey marie December 9th, 2014 at 2:55 pm

          nonsense and you know it

        • burqa December 9th, 2014 at 3:36 pm

          rational_thinking_one: “Morality is in the eyes of the beholder.”

          Morality in the conduct of warfare was established by George Washington, John Adams and the Continental Congress early in the Revolutionary War. They all forbade torture and abuse of prisoners.

          “Let our manner distinguish us from our enemies, as much as the cause we are engaged in…”
          – from the Provincial Congress, June 20, 1775 in an order to form an army.

          “Our Government believes that freedom from cruelty and inhuman treatment is a natural right. It is not a grace to be given or withheld at the will of those temporarily in a position to exert force over defenseless people.”
          – President Franklin D. Roosevelt, Message to the Congress on the Sinking of the Robin Moor, June 20, 1941

          “… We do not intend that the Japanese shall be enslaved as a race or destroyed as nation, but stern justice shall be meted out to all war criminals, including those who have visited cruelties upon our prisoners. …”
          – Potsdam Proclamation, July 26, 1945

          • burqa December 9th, 2014 at 3:44 pm

            Here’s the Father of our country, in the dark, early days of the Revolution:

            “… On September 14, 1775, Washington wrote two letters to Col. Benedict Arnold, who led an American force into Canada. Five of Washington’s points for invasion merit particular attention. …
            * Third, proper treatment of prisoners was necessary. The prominent British parliamentarian William Pitt, who championed American grievances, had a son serving in Canada. John Pitt was never taken into American custody, but in the event that Pitt was captured, Washington warned Arnold, “You cannot err in paying too much Honour to the Son of so illustrious a Character, and so true a Friend to America.”
            This insistence on kind treatment extended beyond Pitt. Washington wrote, “Any other Prisoners who may fall into your Hands, you will treat with as much Humanity and kindness, as may be consistent with your own Safety and the publick Interest.”
            Washington told Arnold to restrain the Continental troops and their Indian allies “from all Acts of Cruelty and Insult, which will disgrace the American Arms, and irritate our Fellow Subjects against us.”
            * Fourth, any Americans who mistreated Canadians should be punished. “Should any American Soldier be so base and infamous as to injure any Canadian or Indian, in his Person or Property,” Washington wrote, “I do most earnestly enjoin you to bring him to such severe and exemplary Punishment as the Enormity of the Crime may require.” In an accompanying letter Washington added, “Should it extend to Death itself it will not be disproportional to its Guilt, at such a Time and in such a Cause.”
            * Fifth, respect the people’s religion. “As the Contempt of the Religion of a Country by ridiculing any of its Ceremonies of affronting its Ministers or Votaries, has ever been deeply resented, you are to be particularly careful to restrain every Officer and Soldier from such Imprudence and Folly and to punish every Instance of it.”
            American ideals won immediate support from the Canadians, but American misconduct squandered it. Contrary to Washington’s orders, some American commanders disrespected Canadians’ religion, property and liberty.
            Lamenting this American misconduct, Washington wrote to Gen. Philip Schuyler on April 19, 1776, “I am afraid proper measures have not been taken to conciliate their affections; but rather that they have been insulted and injured, than which nothing could have a greater tendency to ruin our Cause in that Country. For human nature is such that it will adhere to the Side from whence the best treatment is received.”
            George Washington is still first in war, first in peace and first in the hearts of his countrymen. It’s too bad he couldn’t have been the first person we asked about how to proceed in Iraq.”

            – LESSONS ON IRAQ FROM A FOUNDING FATHER, Op/Ed by Brian O’Malley, Washington Post, March 1, 2008, page A15


          • rational_thinking_one December 9th, 2014 at 3:47 pm

            You’re kidding! You are aware of George Washington shooting his own soldiers, right?!

          • Roctuna December 9th, 2014 at 4:15 pm

            Washington executed American solders for fomenting rebellion within the ranks. Not at all similar to this case.

          • rational_thinking_one December 9th, 2014 at 4:38 pm

            Would you be okay with the military doing that today? No? Okay then don’t cherry pick his behavior as a moral high ground for how the military should act. There’s your relation.

          • burqa December 10th, 2014 at 8:15 pm

            I would be in favor of our military today using the best interrogation approaches instead of ones that yield next to nothing.

            Here are some military interrogators and what they have to say as experts on the subject:

            Here’s Chris Mackey, a U.S. Army interrogator who commanded a unit of interrogators in Afghanistan shortly after we invaded. He wrote a book about it, titled THE INTERROGATORS Task Force 500 and America’s Secret War Against Al Qaeda, by Chris Mackey and Greg Miller.
            On pages 31-32, Mackey describes his training at Fort Huachuca, Arizona:

            “Staff Sergeant Casey, our senior instructor, hammered home the idea that prisoners being tortured or mentally coerced will say anything, absolutely anything, to stop the pain. All of the instructors told us stories of the experiences of Army interrogators working in Vietnam alongside South Vietnamese units that would do the most unspeakable things to prisoners – take two of them up in a helicopter and shove one out the door, torture one of the prisoner’s relatives right in front of him – and the squeals of anguish and false information that would flow. The goal of interrogation isn’t just to get prisoners to talk, our instructors stressed, it’s to get them to tell the truth.”

          • burqa December 10th, 2014 at 8:08 pm

            Your refusal to address the morality demonstrated by Washington.

            Here’s the Father of our country again displaying morality superior to yours:

            “In New York, [George] Washington had wept while watching through a spyglass as the British massacred Americans who had surrendered. But Washington, Fischer writes, “often reminded his men that they were an army of liberty and freedom, and that the rights of humanity for which they were fighting should extend even to their enemies.” To the American officer in charge of 221 prisoners taken at Princeton, Washington said, “Treat them with humanity, and let them have no reason to complain of our copying the brutal example of the British army in their treatment of our unfortunate brethren.””
            – “Our Greatest Christmas,” editorial by George F. Will, Dec. 25, 2004

            Somewhere in my notes I have a longer passage from the book Will refers to, David Hackett Fisher’s”Washington Crossing,” but this will do since I can’t find the other one.

    • tracey marie December 9th, 2014 at 2:54 pm

      bullshit, I stood up and shouted from the beginning about bush, Iraq, torture and the rest of the hate

    • burqa December 9th, 2014 at 3:17 pm

      That is what we elect leaders to do – to think clearly and to adhere to the law and fundamental principles such as not abusing or torturing prisoners, when the people are worked into an irrational frenzy.

    • burqa December 9th, 2014 at 3:21 pm

      The Bush administration was warned in 2002 by the JPRA – the organization that oversees SERE training, about the ineffectiveness of torture and abuse of prisoners:

      “… The requirement to obtain information from an uncooperative source as quickly as possible – in time to prevent, for example, an impending terrorist attack that could result in loss of life – has been forwarded as a compelling argument for the use of torture. In essence; physical and/or psychological duress are viewed as an alternative to the more time-consuming conventional interrogation process. The error inherent in this line of thinking is the assumption that, through torture, the interrogator can extract reliable and accurate information. History and a consideration of human behavior would appear to refute this assumption….
      … A subject in pain may provide an answer, any answer, or many answers in order to get the pain to stop…
      … the application of extreme physical and/or psychological duress (torture) has some serious operational deficits, most notably the potential to result in unreliable information.”

      – from “Operational Issues Pertaining to the Use of Physical/Psychological Coercion in Interrogation,” sent from the Joint Personnel Recovery Agency (which administers the SEER program) to the Pentagon’s Office of the General Counsel when “harsh” interrogation techniques were being considered.

      – “In 2002, Military Agency Warned Against ‘Torture’ Extreme Duress Could Yield Unreliable Information, It Said,” by Peter Finn and Joby Warrick, Washington Post, April 25, 2009, page A1

  6. rational_thinking_one December 9th, 2014 at 1:32 pm

    I see you guys attack disagreement just like the Teapublican idiots.

    • edmeyer_able December 9th, 2014 at 1:33 pm

      Weren’t you the first to mention simple minds?

      • rational_thinking_one December 9th, 2014 at 1:33 pm

        I made a general statement about both sides second guessing Presidents.

        • edmeyer_able December 9th, 2014 at 1:34 pm

          uh …no

          • rational_thinking_one December 9th, 2014 at 1:35 pm

            Check my first post. Then you posted “To insignificant for anything but this as a reply.”

          • edmeyer_able December 9th, 2014 at 1:37 pm

            And it still is, all you can do is attack, you don’t even understand your own words.

    • burqa December 9th, 2014 at 4:29 pm

      Instead of offering just your opinion, how about getting some authorities to cite?
      That’s what I try to do. I try to find the best experts on a particular subject, and then form an opinion. That seems to me to be the “rational” thing to do.
      In this case, the people who know best what works with interrogation are credentialed, trained professional interrogators. I’ve found quotes from over 60 of them on this topic. Some in my notes were interrogation school instructors. I also have scores of quotes from leading Americans like George Washington, John Adams, and significant military and intelligence officers. I have top FBI interrogator Joe Navarro, for example, too.

      So the result is not just competing opinions, but on one side are those most qualified and on the other – – – is you.
      Got any equivalent authoritative sources?
      Wouldn’t it be “rational” to change your mind to agree with the best experts on the subject, especially since all of them cited here are all on the same side?

  7. burqa December 9th, 2014 at 2:22 pm

    “We do know that torture does not advance long-term national interests. It does not procure reliable information; the lies that it elicits overload and confound intelligence analysts. Its evidence cannot be used in civilized trials. It alienates potential recruits and informants. It enrages populations at whom it is directed, and it mobilizes them against the government that practices it. It draws its practitioners into unworthy relationships with nations who torture their own peoples or who torture on behalf of others. It makes civilized allies less willing to cooperate with extradition and intelligence sharing. The experience with torture in the war on terror has not found a new value in torture; it has confirmed old lessons: torture is a fruitless, often counterproductive, use of state power.

    Torture’s effects on the torturing society are equally destructive. Societies mobilized to torture are weakened by the vicious dehumanization that they must propagate to support the practice. Torture laws erode respect for the justice of law itself. The honor and traditions of institutions like medicine, law, journalism, and the military are tarnished by acquiescence in torture. Political reputations are diminished when the false conceit that torture can be confined to narrow licit channels is discovered. Torture responds to the barbarity of terrorism in kind. Like the terrorism it would deter, torture undermines civil societies. The rejection of either must include the forswearing of both.”
    – AN OATH BETRAYED Torture, Medical Complicity and the War on Terror, by Steven H. Miles, M.D. (Random House, 2006), page 166

    • ChrisVosburg December 10th, 2014 at 12:02 am

      Outta the park, burqa, as are your comments downthread. Very, very well said.

      • burqa December 10th, 2014 at 7:58 pm

        Thank you, Mr. Vosburg. You are too kind.

  8. edmeyer_able December 9th, 2014 at 4:50 pm

    Well here’s a chance, I hope the link works, otherwise go to my timeline as I retweeted it.

    Clay Adams ‏@Mooncatadams

    Urge Attorney General Holder: no one should get away with #torture. Sign now: