Churches Petition Supreme Court Saying Gay Marriage ‘Denies” Them ‘Liberty’
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The Mormon church and other denominations have filed an amicus brief with the U.S. Supreme Court claiming their rights as citizens are denied if gays can marry.
A right to same-sex marriage also would supplant the States’ “historic and essential authority to define the marital relation” with an exertion of federal judicial power beyond the democratic process. Representative democracy matters to religious organizations and people of faith. Their capacity to build communities where their values are respected and their ways of life protected depends on the pluralism that our democratic institutions foster and secure. The fundamental liberty of religious believers to participate with other free citizens in deliberating about and shaping the character of their common destiny has been protected by this Court’s determination to read the Constitution as a charter for “people of fundamentally differing views.” To declare an unprecedented constitutional right to same-sex marriage would deny people of faith who support traditional marriage the liberty to participate as equal citizens in deciding which values and policies will govern their communities. We urge the Court to trust the people and their democratic institutions to resolve the marriage issue, as it has on other divisive issues so many times.
The brief is also signed by Assemblies Of God, the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, Wesleyan Church, the Evangelical Presbyterian Church, the Church Of God, the National Association of Evangelicals, and a dozen others.
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Anomaly 100 April 11th, 2015 at 9:06 am
Tax the church.
Suzanne McFly April 11th, 2015 at 9:11 am
Exactly, how can they be the voice of the government when they don’t even pay into the beast they wish to control. I don’t go to church so why do my taxes have to pay for their streets to be plowed after a snow storm, or if they need police or the fire department, why do I have to pay for it? You would think they would quit bringing attention to themselves and just work with the people who attend services and pays their bills.
Anomaly 100 April 11th, 2015 at 9:12 am
Their ‘liberty’ is so at stake that they don’t even have to pay taxes.
Suzanne McFly April 11th, 2015 at 9:52 am
If they can claim that I will claim my money is green so I should not have to pay taxes.
burqa April 12th, 2015 at 5:51 am
I think I can help on this one.
When it comes to tax breaks, sometimes the government gives tax breaks for those who contribute money to causes that do things the government would otherwise do.
At other times the government gives tax breaks to those who do things that are considered beneficial to society as a whole. Schools, for example, benefit us all even if we do not attend or have children who attend because a better-educated society is one that is more productive and whose workers are more valuable.
Government also gives tax breaks for those it views as providing a service that strengthens and provides stability in society. The government sees this as being in the nation’s interest as it provides a more stable society in which we may do things. One of the roles of churches in society is to provide a structure, it knits people together and encourages them to be more selfless so we are not just clusters of selfish strangers only out for themselves. In times of natural disaster churches function to keep people together, to provide a measure of comfort and hope they do not receive elsewhere, and the government sees a value to such things.
The value churches have to poor rural communities can sometimes be seen more readily. Besides the kinds of things I described above, at times they provide things like sports leagues for children or other activities within the community to serve the poor or elderly.
Previously I have posted the stat that where I live churches provide over 75% of the food distributed at food pantries. If they did not do that, either no one would do it, other private outfits that are not doing so now would have to step up and pick up the slack, or the government would have to do it and, of course would have to raise taxes to pay for it. If the churches shut down these programs and had to pay property taxes, no way it would be enough to cover the loss.
Ms. McFly, if you ever make it to this area, I will gladly take you around to the various churches that feed the homeless each day and even make it available for you to help out. There are also whole fleets of trucks that drive around collecting and distributing not just food, but clothing, shoes, school supplies, tents and sleeping bags. They provide shower and internet facilities and function as post offices for the homeless. I think if you were to experience these things firsthand your heart would soften towards these angels who are doing so much for so many in the community. Force them to pay taxes and they are going to have to get that money from somewhere and whatever effort they put into turning a profit id effort taken away from serving those in need that so many of us don’t care to be around, much less serve humbly in love the way they do.
Tax breaks recognize the value to society of what they do.
Suzanne McFly April 12th, 2015 at 10:32 am
I do not want them taxed per se, I want them to keep their mouths shut when it comes to political issues. They need to focus on God and leave the rest alone.
burqa April 12th, 2015 at 5:20 pm
I don’t necessarily agree with them getting tax breaks, but was trying to answer your question as to why they do. Our tax code is massive to a significant degree because we give tax breaks to various individuals and organizations that do things seen as being beneficial to society. An example would be those who hire the handicapped.
I also agree with the point you just made, but agree with some trepidation because of the strong overtone of censorship. I agree with Alan that the answer to bad speech is not censorship, but good speech in response.
To insist that others be silent on issues of the day is a view I have trouble with. It brings to mind the easily understood, but problematic when it comes to practicing admonition to do unto others as we would have them do unto us.
It’s a beautiful thing to at least try to live by and I claim no mastery of doing so. I try, but fail at times to practice it.
Hirightnow April 11th, 2015 at 9:49 am
This can never be said enough.
granpa.usthai April 11th, 2015 at 1:55 pm
just like any other political for profit organization!
StoneyCurtisll April 11th, 2015 at 5:09 pm
Tax them like they tax marijuana..(nearly out of existence)
fahvel April 12th, 2015 at 4:29 am
I’d love to see them all praying in little smoke filled dens just like the old time joint smokers. They could roll 1686 joints from the pages of their miserable book.
burqa April 12th, 2015 at 5:21 am
Now gone and done reminded me of that religious freedom law Clinton signed and which we on the Left generally approved. It allowed Indian tribes to violate the drug laws and take peyote because it was part of their religion.
burqa April 12th, 2015 at 6:25 pm
Taxing them nearly out of existence could be seen as a good idea by those of Libertarian/conservative views.
After all, they have a major problem with a “culture of dependence” and are in favor of cutting or eliminating spending on welfare, food stamps and foreign aid that helps those in need. They oppose federal spending and, since money is fungible, the tax breaks given to churches could be seen as a way for the federal government to help fund those efforts in our communities and abroad.
As I have noted here before, where I live 78% of the food pantries are run by churches or faith-based organizations. The Thomas Brisben homeless shelter here was established by and is run by people of faith and so is the cold weather shelter.
The soup kitchens that feed the poor and homeless here are also run by churches.
Tax those churches “nearly out of existence” and those being served would be forced to get off their lazy butts and get a job, according to Libertarian/conservative beliefs.
These organizations have many more programs here I could mention, but those are enough to make the point.
As for me, I’m a liberal. To me, liberalism includes a strong ration of compassion and concern for those in need and these churches do an extraordinary job of addressing those needs.
I am also a Christian, and my faith calls on me to help out as well.
On a daily basis I see the awe inspiring work these people do and am inspired by it and think those doing these things deserve praise, rather than criticism and name-calling from the peanut gallery.
When one gets involved a whole new world opens up and we see that we are surrounded by angels and I happen to think they deserve a defense.
Angelo_Frank April 11th, 2015 at 9:12 am
Gay wedding cakes are a bigger threat than terrorism or climate change to these medieval dolts.
rg9rts April 11th, 2015 at 10:10 am
Somehow they equate a group hug with group marriage.. go figure
Larry Schmitt April 11th, 2015 at 12:05 pm
The only liberty that would be denied them is their liberty to discriminate.
Larry Schmitt April 11th, 2015 at 12:06 pm
“…which values and policies will govern their communities.” Evidently the value of equal treatment for all means nothing to them.
granpa.usthai April 11th, 2015 at 1:53 pm
-and these religious HYPOCRITES (clothed in MIXED FIBERS) will still infringe on the LIBERTY and FREEDOM of USA AMERICAN CITIZENS who are natural nudist! (closer to GOD and GOD’s WORD than any of these church dwellers will ever be).
what a f’ing crock!
Obewon April 11th, 2015 at 4:15 pm
These Blasphemers eat shellfish, plant mixed fields, wear mixed fibers and utter Jehova! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsVAYFSEBrA
StoneyCurtisll April 11th, 2015 at 5:07 pm
Thats a classic~!
Hirightnow April 12th, 2015 at 9:44 pm
This illustrates perfectly why the “religious right” is doomed from the start (Long diatribe about hypocrisy, the inherent difficulties involved with keeping your followers both ignorant AND controlled, and the futility of applied mass psychodynamics goes here).
StoneyCurtisll April 11th, 2015 at 5:04 pm
Damned shell fish and cloven foot eaters…They will pay the price for their sins in the days of judgment~!
Obewon April 11th, 2015 at 4:10 pm
The fundamentalist National Association of Evilangelicals, Mormons, etc remain unaware SCOTUS upheld the 10th and 14th amendments in 2014 legalizing equal marriage throughout the entire USA, conferring 2000+ Federal benefits ‘equally’!
Evilangelical bigots are not a protected class. That’s why most young adults runaway as fast as they can from these cults. Jesus never said anything about two Mary’s or Joseph’s doing the wild thing.
StoneyCurtisll April 11th, 2015 at 5:04 pm
Oh hell yeah~!
majii April 11th, 2015 at 5:53 pm
Although these tools claim to believe in the Constitution, they don’t. If they did, they’d know that it’s the Supreme Ct.’s job to resolve disputes, and that we all have equal rights, per the 14th Amendment. I’m sick of them talking about how much they loooooove the Constitution while they’re trying to subvert it at the same time. There’s nothing that makes me angrier than liars and hypocrites. I’ve live in the South my entire life, and I know people like the far right fundamentalists. In public, they wear their “c”hristianity on their sleeve, but behind the scenes, they’re engaged in some things that would burn your eyes out, if you could witness them. This is a well-kept secret.
For example, I remember reading a Vanity Fair article a few years ago that revealed that when he was Speaker, it wasn’t unknown by other GOPers that Gingrich enjoyed receiving blow jobs in the backseats of cars. Think any of the liars and hypocrites in the GOP/TP will refuse to “stand” with him, even though they know this? Nope, not gonna happen. They protect their own, even when they know they’re corrupt b*stards.
StoneyCurtisll April 11th, 2015 at 6:10 pm
Oh yeah..
They looove that constitution…
Until someone like Lois Lerner uses her 5th amendment right not to incriminate herself or answer questions in front of a kangaroo court called congress…
Then the constitution just stands in the way of their witch hunt..
CharlieMA April 11th, 2015 at 6:08 pm
Remove Tax free status for all religions.. show them Liberty. I am tired of paying my fair share while they do not pay theirs. Get rid of Citizen’s United too.
StoneyCurtisll April 11th, 2015 at 6:11 pm
I agree.
StoneyCurtisll April 11th, 2015 at 6:57 pm
The only “liberty’ they are being denied is bigotry based on sexual preference..
And if they really believe in the constitution, they need to recognize the 14th amendment, (“the equal protection of the laws”) no matter what mythological deity or superstitions they believe in.
burqa April 12th, 2015 at 12:36 am
It’s already been settled.
They’re just whistling past the graveyard.
The Supreme Court has already ruled in Loving v. Virginia that:
“Marriage has long been considered a right fundamental to the pursuit of happiness.”
Dwendt44 April 12th, 2015 at 1:02 am
they never seem to point out exactly HOW their liberty is impacted. They still have all the ‘rights’ that they had prior.
You’ll notice that the can’t get the name of jesus right or even the cross. God’s name is also incorrect.
burqa April 12th, 2015 at 12:34 am
Anyone else getting the disturbing Liberty University ad under the headline?
The one I see depicts a woman who looks to be in her late 20s, maybe 30, and she’s sittoing on a couch with a girl who looks to be about 5 or 6 years old, and they’re looking at a big book. The ad reads, “Liberty University. Study online so you can spend more time with her.”
Here we are, talking about marriage and sex and stuff, and there they got this picture in the middle of it all. Are they promoting gay ped weddings or something?
I’m afraid to click on the link.
Mike April 13th, 2015 at 8:57 am
I missed the part about how their liberty is being denied….????? Little help…????
Let’s be honest, they want to somehow legislate a right to hate.
Ronald L April 14th, 2015 at 9:52 pm
This is all about testing the limits of the Hobby Lobby ruling.