Event Calculated To Provoke Muslim Anger Triggers Gun Violence
[su_right_ad]Muslim-hating publicity hound bigot Pamela Geller’s so-called American Freedom Defense Initiative decided to hold an exhibit of “over 350 submissions of Muhammad cartoons from all over the world” in Garland, Texas, knowing full well that it would anger Muslims.
It did not go well.
Two men were shot dead and a security guard was injured:
Two men who opened fire outside a contest for Prophet Mohammad cartoons in a Dallas suburb were shot dead by police Sunday night, authorities said.
The men drove up to the Culwell Event Center in North Garland, got out of their car and began shooting just as the “Muhammad Art Exhibit and Cartoon Contest” inside was coming to an end, Garland police spokesman Joe Harns said.
A security guard was shot in the leg. He was later treated and released from a hospital.
Police who were helping with security at the event fired back, killing both gunmen, Harns said.
Their identities weren’t immediately released.
FBI and local officials were checking on the gunmen’s vehicle for explosives, a law enforcement official told CNN. The area around the center was blocked off.
Surrounding businesses, including a Walmart, were evacuated, as were attendees from the Curtis Culwell Center.
CNN producer Chris Lett, who was covering the event, said there were about 40 people at the event when police announced there had been a shooting.
Prominent America imam Zia Sheikh tweeted:
Shots fired at Pamela Geller event. The community stayed away from event. Seems like a lone wolf type of attack. Just what we didn’t want.
— Imam Zia Sheikh (@ImamZia) May 4, 2015
The Doc is pretty much in agreement with Jennifer Serna:
@ImamZia @CalvertFOX4 tell Pamela going forward to hosts these events at her home. Afterall they are private events, right?
— Jennifer Serna (@Talesofmy3) May 4, 2015
Heck, I’ll even spring for her Kevlar dress. ‘Nuff said
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John Tarter May 4th, 2015 at 12:06 am
What, we now have to censor ourselves because of those practitioners of the “religion of peace”? No! The 1st Amendment shall stand, and if anyone does not like it they can move out of the country.
whatthe46 May 4th, 2015 at 12:08 am
you mean like when the so called “christians” went to texas to boycott an event sponsored by muslims and yelled nasty remarks to them?
John Tarter May 4th, 2015 at 12:22 am
Yelled at them? Oh my, the poor babies!
whatthe46 May 4th, 2015 at 12:37 am
they were acting like true “christians” according to you right. and you’re quite stupid if you think that i mean what happened here is ok. point is if it were in the reverse, there would have been a higher body count.
fahvel May 4th, 2015 at 3:43 am
that’s cuz americun white guys shoot gooder.
whatthe46 May 4th, 2015 at 12:09 am
so i guess you’d be ok if muslims did the same right. being “free speech” and all.
John Tarter May 4th, 2015 at 12:17 am
I have no problem with free speech at all.
whatthe46 May 4th, 2015 at 12:38 am
b.s. if muslims held an event that castrated Jesus, you’d have a field day.
Red Eye Robot May 4th, 2015 at 1:02 am
Maybe he would have a field day, But there would be no attempted murder.
whatthe46 May 4th, 2015 at 1:03 am
b.s.
wpadon May 4th, 2015 at 1:01 pm
Unless your in Florida, where you are charged if you do not kill anyone.
granpa.usthai May 4th, 2015 at 1:11 am
there was an art display years ago that church people went ballistic over. Can’t remember the name of the artist, but the display was a crucifix inside a jar of urine with a light behind it.
not to mention Janet’s nip slip @ a sporting event a few years back.
whatthe46 May 4th, 2015 at 1:23 am
was it muslims that did that? or was it a plain ole American citizen?
dewired4u May 4th, 2015 at 1:50 am
How about hanging all those black folk or killing all those red people….how far you want to go back?
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 1:49 pm
LOL, reread your history books: those were American Democrats. KKK was totally a democrat response. Oh my American IQs have dropped.
OldLefty May 4th, 2015 at 3:29 pm
those were American Democrats. KKK was totally a democrat response. Oh my American IQs have dropped.
______
You need to follow up a little more on YOUR history.
The Civil Rights
Act of 1964;
Total Votes;
The House ;
Southern Democrats: 7–87
(7–93%)
Southern Republicans: 0–10
(0–100%)
Northern Democrats: 145–9
(94–6%)
Northern Republicans: 138–24
(85–15%)
The Senate version:
Southern Democrats: 1–20
(5–95%)
Southern Republicans: 0–1
(0–100%)
Northern Democrats: 45–1
(98–2%)
Northern Republicans: 27–5
(84–16%)
LBJ told Kennedy aide Ted Sorenson
that “I know the risks are great and we might lose the South, but those
sorts of states may be lost anyway.”
Then
the racist Democrats, (who were Democrats because the end of slavery damaged
the economy of the south, and FDR’s policies did a lot to restore it), all
became Republicans, the “Southern Strategy” was born and the South
has been solidly Red ever since.
Now the party of Lincoln and The Union has become the party of Lincoln’s assassin and secession.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 7:43 pm
Strange that there would be two different records, mine found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964
Note the higher percentage of Dems who voted against it:
By party[edit]
The original House version:[20]
Democratic Party: 152–96 (61–39%)
Republican Party: 138–34 (80–20%)
Cloture in the Senate:
Democratic Party: 44–23 (66–34%)
Republican Party: 27–6 (82–18%)
The Senate version:
Democratic Party: 46–21 (69–31%)
Republican Party: 27–6 (82–18%)
The Senate version, voted on by the House:[20]
Democratic Party: 153–91 (63–37%)
Republican Party: 136–35 (80–20%)
OldLefty May 4th, 2015 at 7:58 pm
That is because almost EVERY Southern Democrat and Republican voted against it while almost everyone ELSE voted for it.
And it was proposed and signed by a Democrat.
Then the Republicans came up with the Southern Strategy and the South is solidly red.
pignose4.0 May 4th, 2015 at 4:56 pm
Correct answer: slave owners and the U S Calvary no party affiliation required. Here’s a little 101 history for you, the republican party and democratic party switched what they stand for in the 60’s so today Lincoln would be a Democrat.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 5:06 pm
Thank you for agreeing: Democrats were racist pigs who sought to hold on to slavery and fought against Mr. Lincoln and the Republican.
As for trading places ?
No: the Democrat Plantation is alive and well and Blacks are as chained to that model as they ever were–probably more–they’re minds are now chained. Decades of Leftist dogma has eroded them to what they are today. So sad.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 1:45 pm
Yes, who can forget how angry Christians slaughtered everyone at that event, heads were a’rolling. And don’t forget the Mormons burning down SLC and lopping heads outside Broadway theaters as they waited to see “The Book of Mormon.”
Any comparison between Christian outrage and Muslim outrage is ludicrous; the former whine but do nothing; the latter simply kill.
But then your American Left is exactly that: ludicrous.
fahvel May 4th, 2015 at 3:42 am
only after someone read to him what was happening.
bpollen May 4th, 2015 at 4:25 am
That’s one of the funniest lies you have EVER told.
The only people to believe that have their names listed under “gullible” in the dictionary.
whatthe46 May 4th, 2015 at 12:07 am
because of this ignorance, they’re lucky it wasn’t much worse. what a nice display of “christian” love for all mankind. they would have chit a pig if it were reversed and muslims were to hold a contest depicting Jesus Christ as a cartoon caricature? quite frankly, i think there would have been more blood shed.
John Tarter May 4th, 2015 at 12:20 am
What are you talking about? Christians are regularly disrespected and there is no violence. I sorta like what happened here though, the 2nd Amendment protecting the 1st Amendment. It worked out well didn’t it? Two low life religious fanatics are dead and the good people are alive.
whatthe46 May 4th, 2015 at 12:38 am
how are “christians” disrespected? i can’t wait for this answer.
Red Eye Robot May 4th, 2015 at 1:15 am
My this was hard!
whatthe46 May 4th, 2015 at 1:26 am
so, being an atheist means you disrespect christianity. and this isn’t a buildboard put up by muslims now is it? and what else i don’t see here is a caricature of Jesus.
dewired4u May 4th, 2015 at 1:56 am
All pictures of Jesus are made up so it’s pretty hard to disrespect his likeness.
Jake May 4th, 2015 at 7:26 am
In fact all references to Jesus are made up, being that he is a fictional character from a mediaeval fairy tale.
Jimmy Cahill May 4th, 2015 at 8:31 am
Actually that is a caricature of Jesus since we really have no clue. The image on the billboard is the western fantasy of Jesus, which could never have been possible, so in a way it is a caricature.
rg9rts May 4th, 2015 at 3:21 am
HEY GARY HOW’S IT HANGIN’!!!!?????
bpollen May 4th, 2015 at 4:23 am
Here’s one from the Reich-wing:
mcalleyboy May 4th, 2015 at 7:57 am
Same God and the Angel “Gabriel” is in both the bible and Koran, so this could be a slam against Muslims.
dave-dr-gonzo May 4th, 2015 at 8:27 am
It’s hard because you left it in the toaster too long. Try a lower setting. Also, you’ll get Kurt Cobain’s face.
fahvel May 4th, 2015 at 3:40 am
the pig droppings from your mouth and mind let the world know that civilization has along long way to go before it resembles anything civilized.
bpollen May 4th, 2015 at 4:19 am
Tourettes Tater!!!
You are assuming that anti-Muslim bigots are good people? Based on what? Clairvoyance? I don’t think there were good people shooting at the bigots, or good people at the bigot convention. But leave it to ol’ Hash Browns to assume bigots are good people. Says a ton about your “character” and moral and ethical grounding, and your unfamiliarity with what that Jeebus of the Christians says in that there “holy” book.
OldLefty May 4th, 2015 at 6:38 am
Christians rule the nation.
No violence?
Tell that to the victims of;
U.S. Military Weapons Inscribed With Secret ‘Jesus’ Bible Codes
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/us-military-weapons-inscribed-secret-jesus-bible-codes/story?id=9575794
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 1:41 pm
You’re still on about that ? Seriously ? And why don’t you offer the same penetrating insights into Islam’s constant use of Koranic passages as they cut off other peoples’ heads ? Speak on, coward.
OldLefty May 4th, 2015 at 1:54 pm
So what???
They used Biblical passages as well.
Meanwhile, even today, there are those calling for “war” over gay marriage, and stoning for adultery and homosexuality.
http://reason.com/archives/1998/11/01/invitation-to-a-stoning
The difference??
OUR wall of separation.
Meanwhile, if you were a secular Iraqi who lost everything, (including your children in Shock and Awe, seeing Bible verses on scraps of US metal, YOU might think it was a Christian war on your people.
dave-dr-gonzo May 4th, 2015 at 8:26 am
Tourette’s Tater bleated:
“Christians are regularly disrespected…”
… and Muslims aren’t? Mind you, as an atheist (who regularly gets disrespected, by the way), I find it silly that a few of them would get worked up about satirical cartoons, but it’s silly to act as if only poor, widdle, powerless (not!) Christians are disrespected, numbnutz.
“… and there is no violence.”
No violence? To quote Old Lefty:
Jim D. Adkisson
Richard Scott Roeder
Von Brunn
Byron Williams
James G. Cummings
Jerad and Amanda Miller
Eric Frein Poplawski
Eric Robert Rudolph
Anders Behring Breivik
And, based on recent research, I’m going to go right ahead and add that nice, wholesome Christian soldier Tim McVeigh.
John Tarter May 4th, 2015 at 8:44 am
You brought up Brevik? He wasn’t a Christian as the Muslim fanatics claim to be Muslim.
dave-dr-gonzo May 4th, 2015 at 8:56 am
“At the age of 15 I chose to be baptised and confirmed in the Norwegian State Church. I consider myself to be 100 percent Christian.” — Anders Behring Breivik
Game, set, match. You know, Tourette’s, you need to learn the art of sockinit before you make a bigger fool of yourself.
wpadon May 4th, 2015 at 10:26 am
The article stated that the gunmen were shot by police. The second Amendment had nothing to do with this incident. BTW, Ted Nugent was crapping himself during the action.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 1:38 pm
You crap yourself at the very thought of offending Muslims but have no fear of likewise to Christians. Why is that ?
And your appeasing statements regarding Islam are noted: you will be the last to be hung or decapitated.
wpadon May 4th, 2015 at 3:46 pm
I go through life not worried about who I offend equally. In my opinion, religion is for those who are weak in character to act civilly. I met Ted Nugent at an archery event at Phil’s Archery in McKees Rocks Pa around 1990 when he was with Damn Yankees. He was a only a bit of a jerk then, I thought it was his celebrity status back then.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 4:27 pm
“…offend equally” ? As if you’d ever voice your opinion of Muslims in open debate. In my country we are arrested if we do so. Not so in USA. What happened to you guys.
I don’t know Ted Nugent, but he googled as rock person. Who cares what he has to say either way–we’re talking about YOU and your inability to castigate those you fear. “Truth to power” was the mantra when I attended your Uni system. Adios to those days in USA.
Jack E Raynbeau May 4th, 2015 at 8:36 pm
I found myself in a strip joint in McKees Rocks back in ’95.
wpadon May 4th, 2015 at 10:11 pm
There are still a couple on Island Ave near the bridge.
Jack E Raynbeau May 4th, 2015 at 10:50 pm
I was just a visitor to your area. I remember a bar… Bootyas? Hockey and ten cent shrimp. I had a ball.
wpadon May 5th, 2015 at 11:06 am
Unfortunately, Butya’s is currently closed. I always had fun there also, the food was great. Eat dinner, grab a six pack or two and go to the drive in theater next door on a summer night.
dewired4u May 4th, 2015 at 1:53 am
There are no pictures of Jesus no one knows what he looked like so it’s not posable to draw a cartoon of him but Mohammad was a real man and there is a record of what he looked like.
wpadon May 4th, 2015 at 10:21 am
Jesus looks like he is from northern Europe with blue eyes and a beard. Just like his parents. lol
Darksnark May 4th, 2015 at 2:45 am
If you go out of your way to pick a fight, don’t be surprised if someone takes a swing at you and don’t go around playing the “victim” afterwards.
Pamela Geller and two bigoted Tea Party Congressmen, Louis Gohmert and Steve King, invited a notorious Muslim-bashing white supremacist named Geert Wilders to come here from the Netherlands and preach his hatred in Texas.
Mr. Wilders is well-known to both attract and provoke trouble everywhere he goes, so I hope the security guard wounded when two gunmen opened fire on the “free speech” event sues the ass of Pamela Geller and anyone else responsible for all-but-inciting violence….
bpollen May 4th, 2015 at 5:51 am
He’s Anders Breivik approved!
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 1:36 pm
And you sir, are Allah approved. So don’t worry: your appeasing statements have been noted and you’ll be the last to have your head taken.
“And those who cried ‘Appease ! Appease !’ were hung by those they tried to please.”
bpollen May 4th, 2015 at 3:23 pm
You are FUNNY. Just not in a good way…
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 3:37 pm
Sir, you might try responding with reason, examples of what you believe and why–perhaps some quotes typifying some of your belief. Ad Homs don’t relate any logic or reason.
bpollen May 4th, 2015 at 3:52 pm
To respond to a troll? Funny, I tell ya.
mcalleyboy May 4th, 2015 at 7:54 am
You ain’t gonna win against a Muslim even if you take their side, it’s a wasted rant.
OldLefty May 4th, 2015 at 8:08 am
Is that why the US took the side of radical Islam for decades, as a hedge against “communism”??
I suspect that the people like Pam Geller had their 1950s counterparts telling us what great allies the Muslim Brotherhood were against Nasser.
They are also the same crowd encouraging ~ Jim D. Adkisson, Richard Scott Roeder, Von Brunn, Byron Williams James G. Cummings, Jerad and Amanda Miller, Eric Frein Poplawski, Eric Rudolph, Von Brunn and Anders Behring Breivik.
Funny how they don’t see how much they are like the very Muslims they love to hate.
mcalleyboy May 4th, 2015 at 8:35 am
In order for man to evolve he has to adapt and learn, were still adapting and learning and so is the enemy no matter what religion they hide under, bottom line is we won this time.
OldLefty May 4th, 2015 at 8:40 am
bottom line is we won this time.
______
Who won what this time?
mcalleyboy May 4th, 2015 at 8:47 am
One security guard injured two dead slugs and freedom of speech… is honored, American culture allowed to flourish, those that don’t agree with freedom stopped, how… their tactics are the same. intolerant Islamists were taken out, you bet we won and God Bless America. And a side note, great job Mayweather, Pacman is a fake priest and a complete and utter show off like his ugly mother, I’d rather have a fowl mouthed fighter that doesn’t lie and doesn’t hide his true identity then a liar who has several mansions, expensive sports cars but claims the ways of Jesus.
John Tarter May 4th, 2015 at 8:43 am
They weren’t the victims. The two Muslim fanatics were shot dead – they became the victims.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 12:11 pm
Sir, in a world where Islam is attacking and killing everyone with which IT disagrees, your solution is “Shut up, he explained.” Did these people cause all the many, MANY Islamic attacks around the world with their hatred ? Even those prior to their birth ?
Consider that you Americans have been attacked by Muslims since the inception of your country–it is endemic in the structure of their religion. Your own USMC fought them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War This has been going on since Islam (“peace when weak; war when strong”) first arose from the desert.
At what point is someone’s verbal response to Islam’s attacks an observation, rather than a cause of them ?
Wiley Post May 4th, 2015 at 5:14 am
“Their identities weren’t immediately released.” Code for “They weren’t Muslim”?
OldLefty May 4th, 2015 at 6:23 am
What is “Their identities weren’t immediately released.” code for in the millions of times it has been used when they are not Muslim?
mcalleyboy May 4th, 2015 at 7:53 am
Exactly they all have Muhammed in mixed in with their snake names.
OldLefty May 4th, 2015 at 8:03 am
The point is they say the same thing when no Muslims are involved.
They say the same thing when the perpetrators are Christian or atheist.
mcalleyboy May 4th, 2015 at 8:40 am
It was a Muslim bash event so one this one instance I’m pretty sure it wasn’t Christians this time. Good thing is we were prepared it could have been real ugly, yes it was a Muslim bashing but we need more events such as this to make it clear this is a different country and they either accept freedom of speech or leave, we don’t need to respect their customs and this ain’t their country. Don’t forget when your in their country, your reminded several times to obey and respect their cultural differences, same in our country, yes were more rude, more open and anyone can be bashed.
Republicans_are_Evil May 4th, 2015 at 8:41 am
You want more events that incite violence? That is not sane.
mcalleyboy May 4th, 2015 at 8:55 am
How are you going to hide from violence… your going to put your trust in a friendly Muslim by volunteering your services and being kind to your fellow man, I hope you don’t think thats gonna save your head from the blade or weapon, that’s about as effective as hiding under the table dialing 911 or playing dead in a very bad event.
Republicans_are_Evil May 4th, 2015 at 9:00 am
“your [sic] going to put your trust in…”
Go back to grade school and learn English like a real American.
mcalleyboy May 4th, 2015 at 9:16 am
That’s it? English lesson 101 for a guy with a high school degree and a life time pension at the age of 41. I’m from ND and there’s many immigrants and illegals that make more money with skilled jobs then a college degree, those with college degree’s work at McD’s and call centers. Please it’s not that bad, sure wish you’d had something more to add to the ever increasing Muslim issue’s your currently facing within the US, I live overseas.
dave-dr-gonzo May 4th, 2015 at 10:59 am
“That’s it? English lesson 101 for a guy with a high school degree and a life time pension at the age of 41.”
Yes.
Learn AMERICAN English.
Now, do you have any more stupid questions?
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 12:30 pm
LOL, “American English” ? Oh the absolute irony of that statement !
trees May 4th, 2015 at 1:35 pm
Whatsa matta Dave? Is the free speech issue really that difficult to understand? Liberals for years have taunted Christians, here on this site they’ve been ridiculed, one example being the deliberately misspelled jebus….
Is the enemy of your enemy, your friend????
It would appear so.
OldLefty May 5th, 2015 at 7:58 am
What does this have to do with free speech?
mcalleyboy May 4th, 2015 at 8:40 pm
So are you building yourself a business, mansion south of the border “Gonzo” I know you guys… and then have plan’s to retire there. Why don’t you explain how that works to the American tax payer.
tracey marie May 4th, 2015 at 11:54 am
bwahahaha, all you trolls claim to be wealthy or set for life at a young age. Because it’s on the internets it’s true. /s
mcalleyboy May 4th, 2015 at 8:44 pm
Get real post, I live overseas on a pension and a very large two story concrete house but struggle to get by because foreigners will need to go through all sorts of loopholes to get a job and the full time job pays $200-300 per month in the Philippines.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 12:29 pm
That is your response to reasoned thought, a correction in grammar ?
tracey marie May 4th, 2015 at 11:53 am
that was asinine
mcalleyboy May 4th, 2015 at 8:42 pm
It’s true right? Volunteers (Progressive’s/Liberals/Do-Gooders) losing their heads in the Middle Eastern conflict. Parents of volunteers wearing Muslim traditional dress in order to appease head hunters, it don’t work and then forgiving the Islamists, you just can’t make this stuff up.
illinoisboy1977 May 4th, 2015 at 10:09 am
“Events” don’t incite violence. People’s conscious and purposeful decisions to behave violently, do.
tracey marie May 4th, 2015 at 11:53 am
Like the christiand who were violent towards muslims over a mosque/community center on “sacred ground” after 9-11? The fact that 9-11 is not sacred ground and the community center was a far from the site and could not be seen did not matter to the lying christians.
illinoisboy1977 May 4th, 2015 at 11:56 am
It’s just as wrong when Christians do it. No one has the right to commit violence, just because they’re angry.
tracey marie May 4th, 2015 at 12:02 pm
yet they were cheered by Americans on the right, the polititians on the right egged them on. geller is calculated and with her words and actions she does foment violence
illinoisboy1977 May 4th, 2015 at 12:19 pm
But, ultimately, the wrong is committed by those who take the bait and commit acts of violence. Civilized, decent people don’t become violent when angered.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 12:28 pm
Without Geller the Muslims would not be killing, kidnapping, etc ? Seriously ?
Geller makes zero difference in the fact that they want your head.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 12:27 pm
Exactly.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 12:27 pm
Truly, you are a wonder. So, Muslims destroyed two of your buildings with planes, then Americans weren’t happy they wanted to build a mosque on it ? Imagine that !
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 12:26 pm
Personal responsibility ? Heaven forbid !
OldLefty May 4th, 2015 at 9:06 am
We have said that about EVERY group, including Jim D. Adkisson, Richard Scott Roeder, Von Brunn, Byron Williams James G. Cummings, Jerad and Amanda Miller, Eric Frein Poplawski, Eric Rudolph, and Von Brunn, those who shot up the Sikh temple…
AND, including.
John Ashcroft
“To those who pit Americans against immigrants, and citizens against non-citizens; to those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists, for they erode our national unity and diminish our resolve. They give ammunition to America’s enemies, and pause to America’s friends. They
encourage people of good will to remain silent in the face of evil. “
The presidential press secretary, Ari Fleischer, condemned Bill Maher’s irreverent comic response to 9/11 by reminding “all Americans that they need to watch what they say, watch what they do.”
Couple Arrested in West Virginia for wearing anti Bush T shirts at Bush Rally Settles Lawsuit for $80,000
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2007/08/secret-white-ho/
mcalleyboy May 4th, 2015 at 9:13 am
So your gonna paint a broad brush on Immigrants and yet our neighbors south of the border don’t act up like Muslims.
OldLefty May 4th, 2015 at 10:50 am
I am not talking about immigrants at all.
You can not paint ANYBODY with that broad a brush.
My point is that every group has it’s nut jobs specifically, and no one has done more to nurture them in the Islamic world than the West, lo these many years.
mcalleyboy May 4th, 2015 at 8:37 pm
You’re not watching the same news channels that I’ve been watching but I see trouble on many continents, it’s spreading like wildfire.
OldLefty May 4th, 2015 at 8:47 pm
I quit watching “news” on TV in 2004.
I think that TV News is an oxymoron.
The vast majority of terrorist attacks in E.U. countries
have for years been perpetrated by separatist organizations.
Of 152 terrorist attacks in 2013, 84 of were motivated by
ethno-nationalist or separatist beliefs., more than 55 % (That’s down from 76
percent the year before.)
According to FBI data compiled by the Princeton University’s
Loon Watch, Islamist extremists were responsible for just 6 percent of
terrorist attacks between 1980 and 2005 — falling behind Latino groups, Extreme
left-wing groups, and Jewish extremists.
“The United States suffered approximately 14,000
murders in 2013. Since 9/11, Muslim-American terrorism has claimed 37 lives in
the United States, out of more than 190,000 murders during this period.”
http://sites.duke.edu/tcths/files/2013/06/Kurzman_Muslim-American_Terrorism_in_2013.pdf
mcalleyboy May 4th, 2015 at 9:39 pm
Nice rant! But who wants to end up a statistic? You see the trouble in the world, Islamists taking over the Muslim faith and many of it’s followers aren’t prepared, they don’t have or aren’t use to killing so these are the peaceful ones (many), trouble is what we have today, smaller groups of heavily armed Islamists or (thieves, modern day pirates) taking over entire cities, forcing them to fight, why? They were to peaceful, trusting and have no guns.
OldLefty May 5th, 2015 at 6:32 am
But who wants to end up a statistic?
______
My point is there are many, many more ways that we would be more likely to end up a statistic.
You are more likely to be killed by your own furniture than by terrorism;
According to the report, the number of U.S. citizens who died in terrorist attacks increased by two between 2010 and 2011; overall, a comparable number of Americans are crushed to death by their televisions or furniture each year.
http://blogs.cfr.org/zenko/2012/02/24/america-is-a-safe-place/
– You are 17,600 times more likely to die from heart disease than from a terrorist attack
– You are 12,571 times more likely to die from cancer than from a terrorist attack
— You are 11,000 times more likely to die in an airplane accident than from a terrorist plot involving an airplane
— You are 1048 times more likely to die from a car accident than from a terrorist attack
–You are 404 times more likely to die in a fall than from a terrorist attack
— You are 87 times more likely to drown than die in a terrorist attack
– You are 13 times more likely to die in a railway accident than from a terrorist attack
–You are 12 times more likely to die from accidental suffocation in bed than from a terrorist attack
–You are 9 times more likely to choke to death on your own vomit than die in a terrorist attack
–You are 8 times more likely to be killed by a police officer than by a terrorist
–You are 8 times more likely to die from accidental electrocution than from a terrorist attack
– You are 6 times more likely to die from hot weather than from a terrorist attack
But if they have succeeded in getting you that scared of them, what are you going to do about it?
[What’s your reaction to losing your wife and daughters, think about that.]
_______
1) Why would you assume “wife” and daughters? I am a woman with a husband and two daughters…and “think about that”????
2) Most mothers think too much about that, but fear it more from a car accident or someone’s gun accidentally going off, or someone else a Jared Lochner type incident.
Don’t forget, this is similar to how they used to say that murder is down 20% but coverage of murder is up 200%.
mcalleyboy May 5th, 2015 at 8:21 pm
I know ladies that arm themselves legally. You must live in a fairly modern city and in a nice area ( I don’t think your allowed to share the location but it was be interesting to find out what state) but what about the rest of the nation do you speak for them, those that live remote such as farmers and people who live along our southern border and large Californian cities such as San Diego, LA, these are all hot spots if you take the wrong turn (I have). Gun won’t go off if you train, there’s absolutely no reason to be afraid of guns, don’t forget it needs to be holster properly, so the correct holster, don’t keep it in your purse or on the table.
OldLefty May 5th, 2015 at 8:35 pm
I live in Pittsburgh PA.
What does this have to do with Muslims?
Guns??
Here are out of 100;
1.
PIEDMONT, OK, 6/14/14: Neighbors in Piedmont had to dodge bullets after they
were fired into a nearby lake June 14.
2.
BERTHOUD, CO, 7/11/14: Bob and Darla Starman were in their front yard
getting ready for a garage sale on July 11 when Bob thought he heard a bullet
whizz past his head. Then they heard a second shot, and Darla screamed.
A.22-caliber bullet had lodged in her leg above the knee, not far from the
femoral artery. ”
3.
SAN ANTONIO, TX, 8/14/14: A 12-year-old boy who was shot in the face early
Thursday morning inside an East Side townhome later died at University
Hospital. Police said the boy, Julian Karnazuta-Gomez, was with his 14-year-old
cousin at the younger boy’s home in the 4600 block of East Houston Street when
the gun went off around 2 AM.
4.
CORPUS CHRISTI,
TX, 8/14/14: Police determined a man
who walked into a hospital Thursday night saying he had been shot by someone
else instead accidentally shot himself, according to a news release.
5.
MIDWEST CITY, OK, 8/14/14: A 14-year-old boy is dead after being shot in the
chest with a rifle. On Thursday, Midwest City police say they received a 911
call about a possible shooting in the 4200 block of N. Shadybrook Dr. When
officers arrived, they found the body of a 14-year-old in the garage of the
home
6.
ATLANTA, GA, 8/14/14: A 3-year-old boy was in stable condition Friday after
what police believe was an accidental shooting overnight in northwest Atlanta..
7.
LONGVIEW, WA, 8/14/14: A Longview teen is in a Portland hospital after his
friend accidentally shot him in the face Thursday, Longview police said.
8.
VALLEJO, CA, 8/14/14: A Vallejo man died Thursday morning after he
accidentally shot himself in the chest while he was cleaning a firearm. The
man, described as a Caucasian man in his 70s, was in his garage on the 100
block of Sunrise Way, when according to Vallejo police, the weapon accidentally
discharged and was legally owned by the man. Police said that no foul play is
suspected. There were no other injuries reported.
9.
CLARION
TOWNSHIP, PA, 8/14/14: Clarion-based
State Police say around 10:20 AM on August 14, an accidental shooting occurred
on Fisher Road, in Clarion Township. According to police, a 21-year-old Fisher
man had just purchased a handgun and was on his way back to his residence when
he accidentally shot himself in the foot. The name of the individual was not
released. No other information was provided.
10. FARMINGTON, UT, 8/15/14: A 45-year-old man is expected to recover after he was
accidentally shot in Lagoon campground. The man and his 43-year-old brother
were showing each other a small handgun inside a motor-home Friday night when,
about 9 PM, a round discharged and hit the older brother in his lower abdomen,
said Farmington Police Lt. Parish Snyder. Emergency responders arrived at the
campground, located just south of the amusement park, and took the wounded man
to Intermountain Medical Center. He is expected to survive the injury, Snyder
said, adding that the shooting was an accident.
11. NORTH BEND, OR, 8/15/14: A handgun accidentally thrown in a fire discharged 3
rounds, hitting one man in the leg and grazing another man’s abdomen, the Coos
County Sheriff’s Office said. Dustin Shermer, 27, of Grants Pass called 911
around 9:42 PM Friday to report he had accidentally shot himself in the leg.
Deputies met Shermer at the hospital.
12. BIRMINGHAM, AL, 8/15/14: Birmingham Police are investigating a shooting at
Kingston Projects in the 900 block of 44th Place North that left a 5-year-old
girl wounded late Friday night. Police say the girl was an innocent bystander
when a gun was fired during an altercation nearby. Authorities say she was
taken to Children’s of Alabama and doctors expect her to recover. No suspect
has been named.
13;
Man using his rifle as a crutch accidentally kills upstairs neighbor, 5:
police
Jon Andrew
Meyer Jr. told investigators the gun went off accidentally at the Grants Pass
apartment on June 27, according to a police affidavit.
THE ASSOCIATED
PRESS Friday, July 12, 2013, 7:56 PM
As the guy who calls himself “the Gun Guy” say, “If gun owners were really responsible, we wouldn’t need gun control.”
mcalleyboy May 5th, 2015 at 9:10 pm
Thanks for the location information and also the many posting’s of careless hand gun, rifle owners, hey they’re out there and they failed to secure or use their weapon properly… so there are people who shouldn’t carry or own a weapon, I agree with you on the dangers with such idiots but you don’t sound like one of those people and to take measures to protect yourself from such careless gun actions… well it doesn’t sound like you or me, I’m from ND.
I worked in a call center selling supplements and vitamins and I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt the worst phone calls that I’ve ever taken and the most wretched, rude and demanding people on earth were from PA (not you and I’m not comparing you) but only an observation, hey there’s 50 other states right, the other agonizing area’s were Los Angeles, NY, Michigan so in that order.
mcalleyboy May 5th, 2015 at 9:16 pm
Is it correct to compare ourselves or plan our lives by the actions of careless people, that doesn’t sound like either one of us? Thanks for your location information “OldLefty”… well it sounds like you live in a fairly modern east coast city and a large one, I’m originally from ND.
OldLefty May 5th, 2015 at 9:43 pm
I’m originally from ND.
______
Is that “Big Sky country”??
Bet it’s beautiful as all get out!
mcalleyboy May 6th, 2015 at 2:38 am
Couldn’t wait to get out of that state it’s as flat as a rock, plenty of work though, so many jobs but hardly any workers even with the refugee’s are sent up there, some cities can’t fill positions, Bismarck is one spot that comes to mind and hardly any tree’s and brutal weather year round, it’s always windy and extremely cold.
I was in Hampton, VA once for a week, man was it nice and 6 months in Pensacola FL, that was really something also, any spot on the East Coast has got to better then the West Coast, I spent 7 years in San Diego and 3 years in WA state (Beautiful but depressing weather), couldn’t wait to get out of both places when my tour was up.
OldLefty May 6th, 2015 at 7:13 am
It really is amazing that every place has it’s charms.
I would hate to live without the change of seasons and weather. People we know in LA get excited about a few raindrops, (even BEFORE the drought), as if , “It’s REALLY, coming down out there..”
We have a lot of hills, and fluctuations in temps from warm to freezing and back, which lends it’s self not only to treacherous driving but to cracks and potholes as well.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 10:58 am
“Watch what you say” ?
So much for your vaunted American Freedom of Speech. The sixties would never have happened were that the rule. What kind of discourse would have been had ?
2015: “Shut up” he explained.
Red Eye Robot May 4th, 2015 at 12:26 pm
Arrested? for wearing bush t-shirts? they weren’t shot dead by bush supporters for their provocative bush bashing?
OldLefty May 4th, 2015 at 12:45 pm
The point was about free speech and they were arrested by the government.
THIS case is more Jim D. Adkisson, Richard Scott Roeder, Von Brunn, Byron Williams James G. Cummings, Jerad and Amanda Miller, Eric Frein Poplawski, Eric Rudolph, and Von Brunn, those who shot up the Sikh temple.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 12:03 pm
True, you cannot prove a negative. But the Muslim shoe usually drops.
Red Eye Robot May 4th, 2015 at 12:22 pm
Still waiting to read the headline about the suicide bomber named Jesus
OldLefty May 4th, 2015 at 12:51 pm
Did you know that the first suicide bomber in Lebanon was a Christian?
The Russians started it with Grinevitsky, and then it moved to Japan.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 1:31 pm
Wow, you pick a single country where a Christian MAY have committed an atrocity, and use it as what, justification for the many thousands of Muslim suicide bombers ?
Sir, ‘you strain at a gnat but swallow a camel.’ Never quite understood that saying until you provided a living example. Thanks.
OldLefty May 4th, 2015 at 1:45 pm
WOW!!
You are the king/queen of exaggerations and straw man arguments!
1) Christians have committed many atrocities in the world as have Muslims, Hindus, Shintos and atheists.
2) No one justifies suicide bombers.
3) You just need to step out of the echo chamber to realize that the world is more complicated than that painted by Fox News and Pam Geller, and that these events have been decades in the making.
3) I am not a sir, but a ma’am. Why do you assume?
mcalleyboy May 4th, 2015 at 7:52 am
Sweet, nothing like preparing for the obvious.
dave-dr-gonzo May 4th, 2015 at 8:30 am
There was also a folk painting of the Virgin Mary® that used, among other media, elephant dung. Mayor Rudy “Il Douche-eh” Giuliani wanted to shut it down.
Red Eye Robot May 4th, 2015 at 12:35 pm
Did Christians shoot up the joint in a terrorist attack? No? Game, Set, Match
bpollen May 5th, 2015 at 4:59 am
Tasteless in both cases. But neither artist was unaware that there was apt to be a backlash. Admittedly, I don’t really understand art.
Maxx44 May 4th, 2015 at 9:38 am
Bait the trap then cry “TERRORISM” when someone predictably takes it.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 12:02 pm
You make Reason stare: “If it weren’t for all these baited traps, the terrorists would not commit terror.” Or, If A, B; A, therefore B.
Ergo, we cause terror by saying mean things about Islam. Modus Ponens stood on it’s head. Well done sir, well done indeed.
Red Eye Robot May 4th, 2015 at 12:21 pm
“Predictably” I thought Islam was a religion of peace
tracey marie May 4th, 2015 at 12:23 pm
i thought you claimed christianity is?
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 1:28 pm
Nope. Islam owns that trade mark.
Angelo_Frank May 4th, 2015 at 9:43 am
UK Govt is probably sighing in relief. Pamela Geller has been banned from entering England for years. They wrote, “After careful consideration, the Home Secretary personally directed that you should be excluded from the United Kingdom on the grounds that your presence here is not conducive to the public good.
“The Home Secretary has reached this decision because you have brought yourself within the scope of the list of unacceptable behaviours by making statements that may foster hatred which might lead to inter-community violence in the UK.”
Unfortunately we’re stuck with the hate-mongering fanatic.
illinoisboy1977 May 4th, 2015 at 10:06 am
This headline is inaccurate. The event, tasteless as it was, didn’t trigger anything. The only thing to blame for the violence, is the decision of the attackers to engage in violence. Their reasons are irrelevant, as their lives were not in jeopardy, nor were the lives of their children or the integrity of their private property. Therefore, the choice of a couple zealots, who have no honor and no sense of decency, triggered gun violence. The event fell within the scope of the 1st Amendment, which means they were not in the wrong to hold it, no matter how offensive it may have been. That is the nature of freedom of speech.
anothertoothpick May 4th, 2015 at 10:51 am
With rights come responsibility
illinoisboy1977 May 4th, 2015 at 11:09 am
No one has a responsibility to not offend. If someone is offended by what you say, it’s not YOUR problem, it’s THEIRS.
anothertoothpick May 4th, 2015 at 11:27 am
com·mon sense
noun
noun: common sense; modifier noun: common-sense; noun: commonsense
good sense and sound judgment in practical matters.”use your common sense”
illinoisboy1977 May 4th, 2015 at 11:52 am
Common sense would tell us that offensive speech isn’t the string by which a puppetmaster controls others’ actions and “makes” them commit murder. It’s no one’s fault but the one who purposely decides to commit the act. It really IS that simple.
allison1050 May 4th, 2015 at 12:24 pm
So you admit that you weren’t brought up well? That it was alright to be offensive and rude? How young are you 2? It’s time to learn how to share the world.
illinoisboy1977 May 4th, 2015 at 12:36 pm
I didn’t say it’s socially acceptable. I said it’s not a valid justification for committing violence. If someone offends you, you have every right to be offended and angry. You have every right to protest. You DON’T have the right to get violent. I, personally, have the decency to not call out an entire religion, based on the actions of some of its members. Although, I will play devil’s advocate, for the sake of debate. But, if I WERE inclined to hurl insults and spew vitriol at them, or draw caricatures of their founder, they still wouldn’t be justified in responding with violence.
allison1050 May 4th, 2015 at 1:04 pm
Since you adhere to avoidance allow me to ask if it’s alright in your personal world to yell fire in a crowded theater? Must be even though it’s “socially unacceptable”. Did you do a personal head count of the number of people that resorted to violence versus the number of peaceful protesters? What was that I didn’t hear you? Man you need to stop commenting.
illinoisboy1977 May 4th, 2015 at 1:26 pm
First, I’ll comment if I like. No one is forcing you to read it.
Yelling “fire” in a crowded theater isn’t offensive, it’s dangerous because people may panic and injure themselves. It’s not an accurate comparison to offensive language. You have a legal right to offend anyone you wish. You don’t have a right to endanger people. As far as attackers vs. protestors, even one violent attacker is one A-hole too many.
allison1050 May 4th, 2015 at 1:28 pm
You’re 1st sentence sounds like a petulant 5 y/o. ;o) Baby, yelling fire in a crowed theater is not only dangerous but also offensive smuck, as you continue with that avoidance stuff. Put on your big boy pants and stop trying to straddle that fence…doesn’t it hurt to do that? You’d never stand in front of me and think it’s okay you know why, before you put that period on the end of the sentence I’d drop you like I’ve dropped other so called me.
illinoisboy1977 May 4th, 2015 at 1:31 pm
Since you want to devolve into name-calling, I think I’ll save my future responses for people who can actually debate without resorting to insults, when logic fails them.
allison1050 May 4th, 2015 at 1:32 pm
Avoid avoid avoid av….
allison1050 May 4th, 2015 at 1:34 pm
Oh, and your 2nd sentence makes you sound like a 10 y/o. ;o) Just sayin’.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 11:59 am
LOL, the American Left actually tying responsibility to rights ? Oh my, the vapors ! Fainting couch please.
Red Eye Robot May 4th, 2015 at 12:19 pm
the two shooters enjoyed the right of living in a free society, As such they had the RESPONSIBILITY to settle their differences in a civil non violent manner.
dave-dr-gonzo May 4th, 2015 at 10:56 am
“The event, tasteless as it was, didn’t trigger anything.”
Wrong, Sparky.
The intentionally provocative event – which even included an appearance by an Islamophobic neo-Nazi Dutch “politician” – prompted a couple of violent lone wolf extremists to go all ammosexual.
Are you ill-informed, or developmentally delayed? Oops… that term is too “politically correct” for red America, so let me rephrase: are you stupid or a reetard?
illinoisboy1977 May 4th, 2015 at 11:08 am
I’m neither. Nor am I an enabler for those who think it’s acceptable to engage in violence, when they’re not actively being threatened. Their DECISION to engage in violence doesn’t show anything other than their complete lack of common decency and honor. Honorable, civilized people don’t shoot someone for merely “offending” them. You’re doing nothing more than inventing justification for unjustified malice and mayhem. The politican’s presence wasn’t the “cause” of anything, it was an excuse. A pathetically weak one, at that.
tracey marie May 4th, 2015 at 11:49 am
the actions of geller are always calculated to anger and provoke Muslims, that is what she does.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 11:58 am
That Geller points out their nefarious murders is worse than the fact that they actually commit said murders ? You live in an incredible world, madam. Back on your meds.
tracey marie May 4th, 2015 at 12:00 pm
blah blah blah, troll.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 12:23 pm
LOL, I’m sure that is exactly what you hear when truth and logic take another turn at you. Oh my !
illinoisboy1977 May 4th, 2015 at 11:59 am
Just because that’s what she does, doesn’t mean it’s a justifiable reason to commit violence. If they don’t have the wherwithal to control their anger and choose NOT to become violent, just because someone pissed in their Cheerios, they’re better off locked up or dead.
tracey marie May 4th, 2015 at 12:00 pm
judge, jury and executioner, sad.
illinoisboy1977 May 4th, 2015 at 12:27 pm
Not at all. I’m just of the opinion that people who commit acts of violence should be stopped from victimizing those who are not a threat to them. Jail or execution for their crimes should be meted out by a jury of their peers and the Department of Corrections. My opinoin doesn’t make me the Judge, Jury OR Executioner. Just a guy with an opinion.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 3:11 pm
Your answer had no conceivable relevance to the post to which you answered.
allison1050 May 4th, 2015 at 12:18 pm
It wasn’t that long ago that Geller’s people were “locked up AND dead”
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 3:29 pm
Yes, the Jews previously saw this onslaught of poor reasoning and logic and it’s implementation by the state. This same echo chamber that defends murderers and decries goodness will welcome the new Reich in order to “punish our enemies.” Led by The Insipid One.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 11:56 am
Yes, those two shooters who were killed, and others like them–should not exercise restraint in the face of your vaunted “freedom of speech”–were actually the victims.
Sparky’s just practicing that time honored American vast right wing conspiracy act of blaming the victim, yes ? Someone should have stopped and inquired of the two misunderstood shooters, “What ails thee, brother ?”
Red Eye Robot May 4th, 2015 at 12:13 pm
That sounds suspiciously like “It’s her own fault she got raped dressing the way she did”
Bunya May 4th, 2015 at 3:01 pm
Okay. Let’s say, for example, your neighbor owns many firearms, has violent tendencies and a touchy trigger finger. Would you allow your children to stand on the sidewalk in front of his house and taunt him? If you did, I guarantee your neighbor’s actions would most likely land him in jail for life, but your children would be dead. And dead is dead.
.
I’m just saying that, if you invite trouble, expect to get some takers.
illinoisboy1977 May 4th, 2015 at 3:26 pm
These conventioneers were’t openly taunting anyone. They were engaging in their hate and intolerance, behind closed doors. The gunmen sought them out, for the sole purpose of committing murder. The blame belongs, 100%, with the gunmen. We can’t allow a fear of extrimists and zealots to stifle ANYONE’S right to speak, even if we find what they have to say offensive. What should have happened is exactly what did happen. Security returned fire and the terrorists are dead. Best possible outcome, given the circumstances.
Bunya May 4th, 2015 at 3:56 pm
True, and people swimming in shark-infested waters weren’t openly taunting anything, but they got attacked. They asked for trouble, and they got it.
.
This goofy stunt of hers was national news. She did it to provoke a response. She got one – and I would venture to guess it was the kind of response she was expecting. It’s all good, because NOW she can say, “See? I was right all along! All Muslims ARE violent”.
.
Sure, she had the right to speak. She could say anything she wants, but then she has the right to expect a backlash.
illinoisboy1977 May 4th, 2015 at 4:15 pm
I absolutely agree that she was hoping for the response she got. Still, I believe that 100% of the fault is the gunmen’s. Extremists are still human. They don’t have the luxury of a “stimulus response” defense, as one could claim for the sharks. They are capable of higher reasoning and they made the conscious decision to commit a crime. When backlash for protected speech comes in the form of violence, the entire blame must belong to those who think mere words are justification for killing someone.
Bunya May 4th, 2015 at 4:29 pm
I agree, but Pam Gellar had to know her little stunt was going to cause trouble. I think she knew quite well that her exhibit had the potential to cause quite a firestorm. She knew it was going to rile up the crazies, and it had the desired effect. Now two people are dead.
StoneyCurtisll May 4th, 2015 at 5:26 pm
I have to agree with you..
No one outside of Gainsville would of heard of this hate rally short of the 200 in attendance..
These two deceased idiots brought national attention to Gellers hate group and now make them look sympathetic, as if their intent was to actually promote “freedom”..
tiredoftea May 4th, 2015 at 10:27 am
Approvve
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 1:47 pm
See how easy it is to agree to Christian bashing ? I’m sure you post on Al Jazeera your same observations of Islam.
You’re a brave one there, TOT, always speaking truth to power. Dismissed, you may leave.
tiredoftea May 4th, 2015 at 3:20 pm
You’re an idiot. How’s that for “christian bashing”? Criticizing an obvious and vile effort at “muslim bashing” makes you the patsy.
anothertoothpick May 4th, 2015 at 10:52 am
Is there any chance? Any chance at all? That we could get these right wing nut jobs to act a little less like assholes?
dave-dr-gonzo May 4th, 2015 at 10:54 am
Short answer: fuhgedaboudit.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 12:22 pm
“Is there a chance? Any chance at all? that we could get these Muslims to act a little less like assholes?”
Strange you didn’t ask that obvious question, why ?
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 10:52 am
You Americans need to learn from your rabid past in these matters.
Who can forget the earlier tragedy of the “Piss Christ” exhibit, sponsored by the National Endowment for the Arts, in which the Stux gallery was burned to the ground and docents beheaded by raging Christians, offended that a mere representation of their god was thus treated ?
And more recently, Salt Lake City was burned to the ground by enraged Mormon’s who also beheading hundreds of New Yorkers awaiting entrance to Broadway theaters to watch a play blasphemously entitled, “The Book of Mormon” in which their prophet was derided as well as much of their sacred doctrine. Mormons have no sense of humor.
After years of extremely violent Christian intolerance towards mockery of their beliefs we should extend the same expectations to Islam, The Religion of Peace ™, which suffers from undo hatred for the many killings and murders they didn’t do. Or, if they did, they were forced into it as were the above mentioned Christians and Mormons. Being fair, we should have the same expectations of Islam intolerance as we do Christians and Mormons
And people like Pam Geller are worse for pointing these things out than are the people who do the actual deeds. Bitch. Sigh. Damn Christians are probably behind this.
Just another vast right wing conspiracy.
tracey marie May 4th, 2015 at 11:46 am
poor fake xtian
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 11:52 am
Madam: brilliant takedown of both logic and reason. Jonathan Swift turns in his grave. I weep for your country.
Allow me to guess: Grievance Studies degree and still unemployed ?
tracey marie May 4th, 2015 at 11:55 am
you are neither logical or reasonable, you are a bigoted troll
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 12:21 pm
And yet you did not address the issue, resorting to name calling instead. This is what passes for thought on the American Left, which has no courage to “speak truth to power.”
Yes, you can beat up on Christians worldwide because they truly ‘turn the other cheek’ and will not take your head, for either Piss Christ or Book of Mormon, etc., etc.,…but not Muslims. You fear addressing their real or perceived excesses around the world because you do not want to be targeted like the Charlie people. So much for “truth to power.”
“And those who cried ‘Appease, Appease!’ were hung by those they tried to please.” Yet another wimp in the face of truth.
Mr M May 4th, 2015 at 12:52 pm
oh please. “not as bad as we used to be” doesn’t make you any better.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 1:21 pm
You still miss the point: you are blaming the victims of the shooting and not the Muslim perpetrators. You refuse to address Muslim excesses because…you like wearing your head ?
As for biblical passages on gun sights…so what ? A war of cultures has many other more horrendous aspects to it than a mere biblical passage. What ? Nothing to say about the Muslim use of Koranic passages in ALL their war messaging. Cut to the chase and admit that the American Left are ankle biters who attack the very principles that allow them to utter their idiocy and have no guts to address Muslim atrocities, from FGM (NOW could not be reached for comment), to beheadings of anyone not Muslim.
At the very least, you could be even handed and include Muslim atrocities along side the many, many Christian atrocities, naming them one by one. And let’s bring it into the 21st century, shall we ? Harking back, we see that Christianity changed; Islam did not. At the very least acknowledge that.
Upon less a serious dialogue cannot be had.
trees May 4th, 2015 at 2:03 pm
Christianity never changed, it’s message as contained in it’s New Testament pages reflects this, now, as to those who claimed to be Christian and committed atrocities …
That’s another matter altogether.
What we see in today’s times is the inverse.
Islam was founded on war.
The Islamic God hates, and his followers reflect this. Islam says convert or die.
The Christian follows Christ, and worships Him as God.
Christ took pity on us.
The promise of Christ is eternal life. Convert and live.
Bunya May 4th, 2015 at 2:51 pm
That’s horse sh*t and you know. Islam is the mirror image of the old testament (before its over 400,000 revisions). They are a religion of peace. As a matter of fact, more is written about Jesus (pbuh) in the Qur’an than in the bible. The only difference between Christians and Muslims is that Muslims are monotheistic.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 3:07 pm
“They are a Religion of Peace.” You forgot the trademark.
Those recently beheaded by the ROP ™ could not be reach for comment…
Bunya May 4th, 2015 at 3:14 pm
Maybe that was retaliation for over the 100,000 Muslim men, women and children killed for Iraq’s oil. Unfortunately, the dead Iraqi citizens still can’t be reached for comment.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 3:25 pm
Without a Pearl Harbor you don’t get a Hiroshima.
Without a 9/11 you don’t get Iraq and Afghanistan.
Without Islam, you don’t get millions upon millions of dead Muslims at the hands of other Muslims–far more than your country’s puny efforts.
What is it with you American Leftists ? You maintain the same blindness with Muslim on Muslim death rates as you do your inner city Black on Black murder rates–straining at gnats but swallowing camels. You major in Minor Mickey Mouse Mountains of Minutiae at ever turn. Focus on the majority issue, not the corner cases.
Sir, the Muslims have been killing Muslims and non-Muslims ever since they formed their religion–and you think it just started as a result of your response to 9/11 ? A quick visit to the history books is in order for you.
Bunya May 4th, 2015 at 4:08 pm
What’s with you righties? You’re forever trying to drum up trouble, then whine when there’s a backlash. I’m not condoning this shooting, but let’s just say this wouldn’t have happened if Pamela Gellar didn’t expect it.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 5:03 pm
Bumyum, What’s with you leftists ? You do not deign to defend your freedom of speech–unless it is to disparage Christians–yet you would quash that right in Texas (“Shut up about the Muslims !”).
If you give in on this Muslim point do you think they’ll stop there ? If so, measure yourself for a Burka and bone up on Sharia law.
And since when did one group qualify for more respect and an exclusion from the 1st Amendment than another ? Riiight: since Muslims will cut off your head for an offense comparable to “Piss Christ”, right ?
Seen “The Book of Mormon” on Broadway yet ? No ? Why not, because you’re worried those crazy Mormons will take your head off, or plant a bomb in a theater ? No, there is NO rational fear that they’ll do anything of the sort (and haven’t). But you know Muslims could and would do that if it were “The Koran” being pilloried & mocked.
Of course, those Broadway purveyors of the 1st Amendment(when it comes to slandering Christianity) would never allow such a production to proceed, for all the obvious reasons.
Do you, can you, see the difference ?
Bunya May 4th, 2015 at 5:22 pm
Nobody’s condoning the murder in Texas, we’re just saying there’s enough blame to go around. If Pam Gellar didn’t promote an exhibit that’s sure to incite violence, we wouldn’t have 2 dead.
.
There’s no backlash on “The Book of Mormon” because their are no crazy Mormons out there planting bombs and demanding heads – and we don’t expect to see Mormon extremists anytime soon. However, If there were, I’d suggest we treat them like any other deranged psychotic – with kid gloves. If you know that depictions of Mohammed is going to send Islamic extremists with a death wish over the edge, wouldn’t holding an exhibit that deliberately promotes hate a bad idea?
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 5:35 pm
Sir, that is the absolute best response that has yet been tendered on this site–thank you ! Now we have something to debate.
If you “treat rabid Mormons with kid gloves”, will they be satisfied with just that position ? Possibly. For a moment. Eventually they will push for more advantage and then more yet. It is the same with Muslims–it is HUMAN nature–aggressors always want more.
At what point should Stalin have been stopped ? Hitler ? ANY aggressor ? When they are at their weakest. It’s a lot like a legal problem–the sooner you deal with it the less you will spend…in either $$ or lives, given our subject.
Your first amendment is a kind of ‘canary in the mine’, a trip wire as it were, to how far these aggressor have traveled in trammeling your rights. If you don’t enforce them you will lose them. There is a sort of political law of thermodynamics at work here…rights can fall apart and be lost without the input of energy.
Bunya May 5th, 2015 at 9:51 am
Nobody is giving these extremists any special treatment. They ask that we not draw pictures of Mohammed, so many peaceful citizens abide by their wishes. Now, if their demands became too outrageous, like illegalizing contraceptives, stoning gays and forcing women to wear burqas, then that’s a problem, because now it’s infringing on OUR rights.
.
The problem we have in this country is our extreme hatred of Muslims, so we antagonize them within the boundaries of the law. Trust me, if were legal to hunt and kill Muslims, it would be open season every day of the year, with Pam Gellar sporting the biggest killing device.
OldLefty May 4th, 2015 at 3:41 pm
“They are a Religion of
Peace.”
_______
Many adherents are.
Some Christians want to go back to the stoning days.
The only reason why people point out the mote in the eyes of Christians is the sanctimony, and the fact that we helped to create the very thing you whine about now.
Remember Mossadegh?
Remember, Saadat Hasan Manto “21 February 1954
“Dear Uncle,
Regardless of India and the fuss it is making, you must sign a military pact with Pakistan. because you are seriously concerned about the stability of the world’s largest Islamic state since our mullahs are the best antidote to Russian communism.
If this gang of mullahs is armed in the American style, the Soviet Union that hawks communism and socialism in our country will have to shut shop….”??
Remember Eisenhower supporting Saeed Ramahdan, of the Muslim Brotherhood?
Remember Reagan creating al Qaeda and teaching them how to bring down a super power?
Remember the BCCI??
Remember Bush in bed with Shafiq bin Ladin ,Salem bin Ladin, , James Bath and Sheik Khalid bin Mahfouz, Sami Al-Arian, ,( under investigation by the FBI for his associations with Islamic Jihad), Abdullah Shallah, the No. 2 leader in Islamic Jihad,and Hassan Turabi the powerful Islamic ruler of Sudan who had welcomed Osama bin Laden and helped nurture al-Qaida in the early 1990s.
Remember Pakistani President Benazir Bhutto, telling George H. W. Bush, “You are creating a jihadi Frankenstein.”???
Remember
“We have seen in the last decade the decline of the American government and the weakness of the American soldier. He is ready to wage cold wars but unprepared to fight hot wars. This was proven in
Beirut when the Marines fled after two explosions, showing they can run in less than twenty-four hours.”
– Osama bin Ladin
There seems to be a pattern of supporting radicals because
they seem more friendly to business, then bemoaning their power, screaming “How did THIS happen? and How did these people get so radical??!!”
Bunya May 4th, 2015 at 3:12 pm
“Islam was founded on war”.
Sorry, no. Christianity was slaughtering Muslims and heretics for centuries.
.
“The Islamic God hates, and his followers reflect this.”
Wrong again, toots. Unlike the Christian faith, murder is a very grave haram (sin), True followers of Islam DON’T reflect this.
.
“Islam says convert or die”
Remember the good old days when Christians tortured and killed heretics? That included Muslims, Jews and anybody the Christians THOUGHT might not be true Christians.
.
Jack E Raynbeau May 4th, 2015 at 9:11 pm
Trading on myth for another.
OldLefty May 5th, 2015 at 8:24 am
Christianity has changed tremendously in the way that all religions change; in the interpretation.
Islam was founded in a time when it’s believers were under siege by pagans, (Quraish)
As for; The Islamic God hates, and his followers reflect this. Islam says convert or die.
______
That’s what non-Christians and victims if the Inquisitions said about Christianity for hundreds of years.
The Islamic god is the God of Abraham.
Muslims also believe in the second coming of Christ.
This, “my voodoo good, YOUR voodoo bad is EXACTLY what justifies violence.
Mr M May 4th, 2015 at 2:24 pm
Poor xtains losing their preferred status lash out daily. maybe not violently as much, but through the Republican legislators. So your we’re better than they are thinking is bunk.
Christian principals are what allow people to mock Christianity? Who do you think you’re fooling with that ridiculous claim?
When will Christians admit this country’s freedoms are in spite of what you zealots have tried to force on everyone else for 400 years, pilgrim….
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 3:02 pm
So, if I come back to your country and proclaim myself a Christian, I will get a good paying job with your state or federal government ? With Apple ? With Google ? With Hewlett-Packard ?
Exactly to what ‘preferred status’ do you refer ? I think my hiring status would be much higher if I professed that I am Gay and/or transgendered, disabled, blind, deaf, Black (my Hispanic background may not have enough weight), etc. In this your country has changed: it is not the content of my character rather, it is the content of my Grievance vitae.
Sir, your country was clearly founded upon Judeo-Christian principles; your courthouses have the 10 Commandments engraved on many of them; your our founders proclaimed that God set up your country–your freedoms are because of this, not in spite of them–your constant whining notwithstanding.
So, it is Islamic not Christian principles that allow you to mock Christians ? Again, you leave both Reason and Logic twisting in the wind. No wonder Hillary is doing so well amongst your sort.
Mr M May 4th, 2015 at 6:13 pm
so you don’t live in the US and you know how it is? Alright then, there’s no reasoning with you. Got it.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 6:50 pm
I went to 12 years of schooling in USA, so yes: “I know how it is.”
If you’re not more reasonable, then you’re right: there is no reasoning with me, the deficit being your own. You must watch those assumptions more closely in the future…
Mr M May 4th, 2015 at 6:52 pm
oooh. 12 years of school. yeah, that means you know all about it.
OldLefty May 4th, 2015 at 1:01 pm
This is what passes for thought on the American Left, which has no courage to “speak truth to power.
______
Funny, that is EXACTLY what WE say about the right.
And nobody is afraid of addressing anything, except perhaps big business who has created it over the last 70 years.
Look at the people who we have propped up for decades, like Saudi and Pakistan ..
THEIR people HATE us.
Look at those we opposed for decades like India and Iran.
THEIR people like or love us.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 1:11 pm
What part of “Death to America” leads you to believe that Iran loves Americans ? The streets are filled with millions shouting this.
India has been semi-allied with USA for years with much investment on your part, H1 Visas on their part…of what opposition do you speak ?
The common factor for people who hate you Americans: the are MUSLIM. How do you miss this point ? You should travel more.
Personally, I think you just made up that entire posting.
A quick Google in this matter will set you straight. (Let the leftist name calling begin…waiting)
wpadon May 4th, 2015 at 1:24 pm
For every H1 visa given, one less American has a good paying job.
OldLefty May 4th, 2015 at 1:26 pm
Mostly from the Iranians I know, who’s families still live there, even the Jewish family (who attends the Abrishami Synagogue in Tehran)
And…
http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/12/13/how-young-iranians-view-america/?_r=0
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/06/the-iran-we-dont-see-a-tour-of-the-country-where-people-love-americans/258166/
Part of the problem is that as my husband is from India, and has friends scattered all over the world, we get a very different view from that inside the right wing echo chamber.
The Indians have been very resentful that we built Pakistan up )economically AND militarily.
When my husband was growing up in India in the 1950’s and 60’s, they were so jealous of the Pakistanis because they has all the best American stuff, while India was obeying Ghandi’s edict, “home spun cloth only”.
While India was shunned by the US as a Soviet satellite, American and Saudi money poured into Pakistan, supporting the theocratic despots.
Democracy blossomed in India while this distorted religious poison rotted Pakistan.
Look up Saadat Hasan Manto , “Letters to Uncle Sam” from the 1950’s
And also, ask yourself why Strange Lebanese Poll has Christians
Backing Hezbollah
Posted by Jim Hoft on Sunday, July 30, 2006, 12:33 AM
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2006/07/strange-lebanese-poll-has-christians-backing-hezbollah/
(This is a right wing website
that thinks it’s strange because they don’t understand the region and it does
not conform with THEIR version of things.
http://www.mintpressnews.com/christians-in-northern-lebanon-and-hezbollah-unite-over-shared-isis-threat/196663/
Two-thirds of Lebanon’s Christians
believe Hezbollah is protecting country
Published Tuesday, October 21,
2014
In Hezbollah stronghold, Lebanese Christians find respect, stability
In a Christian home in a Shiite
suburb of Beirut, images of Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah share mantel and
wall space with the Virgin Mary.
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2012/1221/In-Hezbollah-stronghold-Lebanese-Christians-find-respect-stability
Red Eye Robot May 4th, 2015 at 12:11 pm
I think you hurt somebodys feelers
Esau Carin May 4th, 2015 at 5:58 pm
what a pile of dog crap. OMG. Where to start. nah, forget it.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 7:14 pm
Please. Your response not an argument. What part of it confused you ? What of it is a “pile of dog crap” ? As representative of this leftist echo chamber you can do better than that. Take apart my argument and present your points. I’ll wait.
tracey marie May 4th, 2015 at 11:51 am
stop spamming, flagged
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 12:25 pm
Too much logic and reason bothering you ? This is the same reason I was previously blocked from this echo chamber.
trees May 4th, 2015 at 1:29 pm
Do you want him censored and silenced? Should he be banned? For what reason?
tracey marie May 4th, 2015 at 3:49 pm
spamming is trolling, period.
cecilia May 4th, 2015 at 12:51 pm
may 20 is draw Mohammed Day
get your cartoons ready!!!
OldLefty May 4th, 2015 at 12:57 pm
Historically, there was not a problem depicting Mohammed.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/10/drawing-prophet-islam-muhammad-images
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 4:02 pm
Then why all the murderous rampages over images ?
But first, let’s examine your mind and how it obfuscates and majors in minors. First portion of the first sentence from your article:
“To many Muslims, any image of the prophet Muhammad is sacrilegious, but the ban has not always been absolute and there is a small but rich tradition… ” his does not comport with YOUR statement, “Historically, there was not a problem depicting Mohammed” which is of course, untrue. “To MANY Muslims” it is and remains a problem. That there has been a “…SMALL but rich tradition” lets us know that you again major in minutiae and is yet another corner into which you paint yourself. Why this flimflam of words ? Clearly it has been a problem with the vast majority. That small minority whom you would cast a “ok” with it are likely already dead.
BTW, I open every article Americans–and especially Leftists send my way–they usually support my point of view.
OldLefty May 4th, 2015 at 4:18 pm
[Then why all the murderous rampages over images ?]
__________
Because these are poor, uneducated people being whipped up by despots, and would likely do the same thing for other reasons if so influenced.
And doesn’t EVERYBODY read EVERY article believe that they support THEIR views??
A great source is the Dawn, (ALWAYS confirm MY views of Rightists like the religious wackos who run run the place.
Not necessarily the articles, but the comments, especially those from Indians.
And I have no interest in examining YOUR mind and how IT obfuscates.
(I notice you ignore facts that refute your very emotional views)
As for; [First portion of the first sentence from your article]
________
You don’t seem to know what you are talking about.
Barry Shitpeas May 4th, 2015 at 1:52 pm
…and your bullet-proof vests.
cecilia May 4th, 2015 at 3:11 pm
I will NEVER allow myself to be intimidated by criminals.
“Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself.” -Salman Rushdie
“If there is a bedrock principle of the First Amendment, it is that the government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea itself offensive or disagreeable.”
— Justice William J. Brennan
(1906-1997) U. S. Supreme Court Justice
Source: Texas vs. Johnson, 1989
A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular.
– Adlai Ewing Stevenson
tracey marie May 4th, 2015 at 3:46 pm
this has nothing to do with free speech, this has everything to do with intentionally behaving crazy and ignorant and if you get the result you are going after you cry “they” are crazy and ignorant
allison1050 May 4th, 2015 at 4:29 pm
geller wanted blood (who’s blood doesn’t matter to her) and she got it.
tracey marie May 4th, 2015 at 4:38 pm
Absolutely true, she wanted to have a new screaming point
allison1050 May 4th, 2015 at 4:52 pm
And there ya go! This adds to how she’ll continue earning a buck.
Esau Carin May 4th, 2015 at 5:57 pm
Too bad they only killed two jihadists. We need to increase that number.
allison1050 May 4th, 2015 at 7:49 pm
Geller and her trashy followers will do just that.
Esau Carin May 4th, 2015 at 5:56 pm
you are wrong.
cecilia May 4th, 2015 at 6:34 pm
listen, I understand this women who organized the contest is not loved by everyone.
And if what you (I think it was you) wrote about her is true: suggesting Muslims should be killed(!) in India – well, I completely disagree with THAT.
I’m just addressing the idea that a CARTOON could be called offensive. sorry, but that is ridiculous.
I don’t care if a religious person gets all hurt because I point out there’s something silly with their idea. Boo hoo.
Ideas can be examined, ridiculed, rejected, made fun of and so on. I stay strictly in the universe of The Idea.
I know religious people and most of them are very nice people so i don’t go around torturing them in person. But, if the topic (for example) comes up I’ll strongly point out that priests who have been abusing children are vile and should be in jail, I don’t get any objections. Not from any of the religious people I know, anyway.
Anyway, no religion deserves any special treatment in the realm of ideas.
tracey marie May 4th, 2015 at 9:32 pm
First, she is a hater, second, she did not suggest, she agreed with and demanded e do this to muslims. These ere not cartoons, they were painting and draing intentionaly done to incite anger, it is a slap in the face .
cecilia May 4th, 2015 at 9:45 pm
sorry, but I don’t care how horrible a drawing is…it hurts no one. hurt feelings just are ZERO justification for violence.
As an Artist NO ONE will ever tell me what I can draw/paint/create. No one
I don’t give a rat’s behind who doesn’t like my work or anyone else’s work.
The entire point of Art is to get people to think about ideas. Even if it hurts people’s widdle feelings. The fact is no one died looking at a painting
The cowards who kill are the ones who have crossed a line.
Red Eye Robot May 4th, 2015 at 1:01 pm
calculated to provoke?
OldLefty May 4th, 2015 at 1:04 pm
Oh, please.
That is their whole schtick.
Can you imagine how disappointed they would have been if they had been ignored?
Mr M May 4th, 2015 at 1:06 pm
only to a handful
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 3:34 pm
LOL. Well played sir ! Well played indeed.
pignose4.0 May 4th, 2015 at 4:47 pm
No because there are real images of Muhammad but if you said it was Jesus you would be correct because his images are all made up.
StoneyCurtisll May 4th, 2015 at 9:04 pm
Thats an obvious self portrait..
The stick figure is lacking any genitalia..
mfr4 May 4th, 2015 at 1:43 pm
While I have no doubt that the people who put on this event are assholes whose intent was to offend a segment of the population, it’s not illegal to offend someone and they didn’t deserve to be attacked (they should be shunned, mocked and humiliated but not physically attacked). The shooters are the ones at fault. Doubtless brainwashed by religion and superstition (not exclusively a muslim problem) their hurt feelings trumped human decency.
KillAllTheRednecks . May 4th, 2015 at 2:33 pm
I’m as libby-lib-lib as they come, but on this matter I’m all in favor of radical jerkbags (they have nothing to do with true Islam) eating a lead lunch. Their attack was a deliberate assault on ALL of our Freedom of Speech, and a demand that we must submit to their Daesh cult of death. These two knuckleheads couldn’t have picked a worse place to play their antics. This isn’t a coddle zone like the EU, morons!
OldLefty May 4th, 2015 at 3:25 pm
Neither is the EU.
Was David Adkisson’s attack on the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church, because “all liberals should be killed” a deliberate assault on ALL of our Freedom of Speech, and a demand that we must submit to a Right wing cult of death?
What about the murder of Dr Tiller?
The Sikh Temple shooting??
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 3:33 pm
That makes the shooting ok–great justifications ! There’s a job opening at Al Jazeera for fellow travelers like you. Last guy lost his head…
OldLefty May 4th, 2015 at 3:43 pm
There is a HUGE difference between, a Christian wacko did the same thing, and saying it’s OK.
That is a straw man.
I would bet there is a job at any number of hate groups for you.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 4:12 pm
Oh, the absolute IRONY of you making my point for me.
It’s NOT ok for anyone kill in the name of religion, yet you post up some supposed Christian killers as…what ? Justification for Muslim killing. That’s what justification does: “They did it too !” That is 8 year old logic.
How about just once, you condemn the Muslim killers with the same glee with which you trounce a comparatively minor number of Christian killers ? Can you do that ? Where’s the left’s vaunted “Fairness” ?
allison1050 May 4th, 2015 at 4:26 pm
You really need to stop. When have you condemned “christian” murders?
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 4:35 pm
It’s called “Context” and, with a Grievance Studies background, you were likely never taught it. The point of the article is Muslims attacking in America. Point me to the article on your topic and I’ll gladly comply.
Context. See how that works ?
OldLefty May 4th, 2015 at 4:26 pm
[Oh, the absolute IRONY of you making my point for me.]
______
Why???
You haven’t made a valid point or a cogent argument.
Again, you don’t know the difference between observation and justification?
EVERYBODY condemns the killing by Muslims as they do killings by everyone else.
Why can you only knock down the straw man?
allison1050 May 4th, 2015 at 4:28 pm
“cause it has no real argument.
OldLefty May 4th, 2015 at 4:49 pm
It’s name calling.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 4:33 pm
Hooray for you: you finally nodded in the direction that Muslim killing is bad–is that your thought or did you subscribe (finally !) because “EVERYBODY condemns” it ? It’s a starting point.
New handle: Bandwagon OL.
OldLefty May 4th, 2015 at 4:49 pm
Don’t be silly, that was never a question.
I’ve been with the crowd who has been warning you about this for the past decades when you were trading the rational Soviets for the irrational radical Islam that you guys have been nurturing for 60 years because they were good for business.
tracey marie May 4th, 2015 at 3:44 pm
shut up troll
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 4:22 pm
“Shut up, she explained.” Great argument to bring to a debate. Stalin used the same one in his echo chamber.
What happened to American dialogue, reasoning, logic and your use of Jonathan Swift’s ability to probe the latter two via satire ?
Bring. Your. Argument. Your insouciantly delivered Ad Homs accomplish but little.
allison1050 May 4th, 2015 at 4:23 pm
Did he say that? Nope
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 4:30 pm
Madam, given that you probably have Grievance Studies degree–if you’ve one at all–it is understandable that you would not–indeed, could not–perceive the point.
You are forgiven, go back to your cats…
allison1050 May 4th, 2015 at 4:32 pm
aww, you’re a sweet little thing aren’t you. ;o) Avoid answering as usual. Don’t you miss Braitbart?
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 4:39 pm
Oh my, Irony is the gift that just keeps giving at this site ! Eyes but no sight. Madam, trade in those cats for a seeing eye dog and a red and white cane. (Is English your second language too ? It’s ok, same for me).
Now, carefully reread the thread and THEN respond.
KillAllTheRednecks . May 4th, 2015 at 5:18 pm
Yes to all of the above. When some a-hole commits murder in the name of their hallucination, then it’s oppression.
tracey marie May 4th, 2015 at 3:44 pm
frredom of speech pertains to the government not infringing on that right…regardless, Geller was asking for it by antagonizing the crazies. One crazy picking a fight with another crazy.
Red Eye Robot May 4th, 2015 at 3:44 pm
Jewish Bookstore calculatedly selling Jewish books to provoke muslim anger
http://yidwithlid.blogspot.com/2015/05/islamist-attack-on-jewish-bookstore.html
Police in Barcelona, Spain foiled an planned attack on a Jewish Bookstore by Islamist terrorists. The terror cell planned to bomb the store, grab one hostage and publicly behead that hostage. Strangely the bookstore didn’t display any cartoons of Mohammed.
Bunya May 4th, 2015 at 4:02 pm
Terrorism isn’t exclusive to the U.S. What Spain does with their crazy radicals is their business.
StoneyCurtisll May 4th, 2015 at 5:06 pm
They got the exact outcome they were seeking..
Red Mann May 4th, 2015 at 5:13 pm
Even thought these jackasses, like the Quran defilers, where deliberately provoking the unstable, childish Muslims, we should not tailor our free expression to the threats of violence. No religion should be exempt from criticism, no religion’s followers have any right not to be offended. The infantile temper tantrums of any followers of any beliefs of any kind can be allowed if death and/or destruction is used to enforce those beliefs.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 7:56 pm
Neither shooter was an “unstable, childish Muslim” but a thoughtful and committed Muslim (per NPR & VofA). At what point will you accept that Muslims believe you should either convert or die ? More than that: that you should be killed and they get a ticket to paradise.
You likely accept that Mormons or other Christians will not change their view on abortion, Gay marriage, etc. So, why can’t you accept–with ALL the evidence before you–that Muslims believe as I’ve stated: convert or die ? They quote it from their book at every beheading or massacre. Pretty obvious to the rest of the world…why is the West so slow in this apprehension ?
dave-dr-gonzo May 4th, 2015 at 10:19 pm
They were violent extremists, asshat.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 10:38 pm
No sir, that is not true. We receive your NPR broadcast today, and interview with one of the assailant’s attorney. “He was a very quiet and nice young man with no aggressive tendencies. He must have been set off by the Geller display.”
Curious that a “normal” Islamic American convert would go over the edge on a free speech issue, isn’t it ? He certainly moved from “normal” to “violent extremist.”
The point: This is Islam and we need to look at it more closely. I think there’s sufficient evidence, from Paris to Nigeria; from Texas to California that there is something dangerous going on.
Red Mann May 4th, 2015 at 11:09 pm
What we are seeing is the logical progression once religion is allowed to be a part of the state, and it doesn’t matter what religion, the drive to theocracy is unavoidable. The Reconstructionists/Domionists actively support a theocracy as does the New Apostolic Reformation movement. These are not fringe groups, they have tremendous political influence and are extremely well funded. Mike Huckabee openly states that the Bible should take precedence over the Constitution. Every Republican presidential candidate is a god botherer. Only the rule of law based on the Constitution holds them at bay and the right is undermining that protection on a regular basis.
Red Mann May 4th, 2015 at 10:26 pm
I have read the Quran and worked with Muslims in the US and in Saudi Arabia and I have no love for any religion. Currently Islam is the most deadly and, yes, the Quran can be used to justify it, but then the opposite is also said. Just like the Bible, it is full of contradictions. Of course, Islamic scholars use the notion of abrogation to explain this away.
There are levels of belief amongst Muslims, just like there are in Christians and Jews, from the crazy fundamentalists to lip service. Most of the Saudis I worked with were essentially Muslim because they had no real choice, enforcement in Saudi Arabia is strict and often brutal, following the Wahhabi interpretation of Islam.
The major problem with moderate Muslims gaining any real influence is because the Quran is believed to be the perfect word of Allah whereas the Bible is most often accepted as the words of men inspired by god and most Christian kind of pick and choose. The other thing is that in Islamic countries, the mullahs control politics and the law, kind of like Europe in the Middle Ages.
Christians have changed their views over and over again, modifying the view to fit that of the secular world when those beliefs are considered to be too horrendous. There has been a large movement toward the acceptance of SSM amongst many Christians and Mormons. The Protestant involvement with the anti-abortion movement was directed by right wing politicians to energize their base in the 60s and 70s, prior to that it was primarily a Catholic thing.
Things aren’t quite a simplistic as you seem to think.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 10:33 pm
I think we agree on a number of your statements. I too have some experience with Muslims. Next time ask one a simple question: “Does the Koran require you, if conversion fails, to ‘subdue’ (in context: kill or enslave) non-believers ?” Then wait for an answer. It is always, “Yes.” It has never been “No.” In this matter it is ‘simple.’
Next question: would your neighbor carry out actual killing ? Not likely…but “Sudden Jihad Syndrome” caught on more often as they renew their association with Islam. Thus the “He was such a quiet and nice guy” as with one of the TX pair, who’s attorney was interviewed today on your American NPR radio.
Red Mann May 4th, 2015 at 11:02 pm
Like I said, not all Muslims are raging fundamentalists, although far too many tacitly agree with such notions. I have issues with all religions because, of necessity, their require you to place irrationality over rationality, and they can easily used to induce otherwise good people to commit` bad things. That said, I do think that these days, Islam is the most dangerous and likely to do the most harm, You must remember that in most Islamic countries the youth are soaked in an extremely fanatical version of Islam and lacking real education and very limited contact with other ideas. The notion that Allah wants dead infidels and that dying for Allah is the best thing is pumped into their heads from birth.
Yes, new converts are emotionally unstable and susceptible to Robert Spencer’s “Sudden Jihad syndrome”.
I used to read Spencer’s “Jihad Watch” regularly until I realized how far right he was and how much he was a binary thinker, all one way or all another. After he tied up with the crazy Pam Geller, I was absolutely done with the blinkered view of the right wing anti-Muslims.
whatthe46 May 4th, 2015 at 11:26 pm
and for you… http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/10-worst-terror-attacks-extreme-christians-and-far-right-white-men
Red Mann May 4th, 2015 at 11:42 pm
I’m not sure what your intentions are with this, but I agree that in this country we are in much more danger from internal fanatics most of whom are right wing and Christian. However, worldwide, radical Muslims are responsible for tens of thousands of deaths and mutilations using their religious convictions to justify their savage, criminal behavior. I lived in Northern Ireland in the early 70s and it seem to me that the terrorists were basically people who wanted to kill and destroy that attached themselves to some cause or other to justify their behavior, preferably a cause with limited chances to succeed so as to prolong their savagery.
whatthe46 May 5th, 2015 at 12:16 am
because it’s always dismissed that so called “christians” are not worse than muslims. what has been going on in muslim countries, have been going on for centuries with regard to “christians” in every country, and still today in this country. and as far worldwide, think again, its the so called “christians” that are more radical. look at how violent and evil the so called “christians” are in this country. and they talk about the middle east.
whatthe46 May 5th, 2015 at 12:38 am
“That said, I do think that these days, Islam is the most dangerous and likely to do the most harm…” where? in their country? surely not ours. so called “christian extremist” are more likely to harm us than they are in this country. “The notion that Allah wants dead infidels and that dying for Allah is the best thing is pumped into their heads from birth.” do you even pay attention to what “christians” want in this country? just because the “christians” here aren’t beheading anyone, doesn’t make them less extreme. crazy a&&es here blow up buildings with children, shoot up hospitals, etc., etc.
Red Mann May 5th, 2015 at 1:28 am
Look, I’ve lived in several countries around the world including Saudi Arabia and I know damn well what some Christians in this country are doing and want to do, but so far, their violence is limited in comparison. You seem to be really hung up on just what goes on here, while there is unmitigated horror at the hands of fanatics occurring in the rest of the world.
whatthe46 May 5th, 2015 at 2:00 am
you’re damn straight i’m concerned about what’s going on here. and their violence isn’t limited by comparison. we have fanatics as well. they call themselves “christians” doing the LORDS work.
Red Mann May 5th, 2015 at 10:58 pm
Well, we live in the entire world. You are being far too provincial. The Christian extremists this country as stupid and ignorant as they may be, pale in comparison to the unspeakable evil done in the name of Allah. Granted, Christians in past ages were as evil, but now they suffer from fatwa envy and babble like the idiots they are.
whatthe46 May 5th, 2015 at 11:17 pm
no it doesn’t. people want to put their fingers in their ears, when they are reminded of the many murders being done in the name of “Christ.” from the dawn of dirt, to the dawn of today. people who consider themselves “christians” speak the loudest and angriest and the most vile crap they can and call for violence every waking moment. you’d think they “owned” the world.
Red Mann May 6th, 2015 at 12:20 am
Calm down, while our Christians may be quite reprehensible, hypocritical, unethical and lying a$$holes, they are not on the same planet as the murderous children of Allah. Maybe a couple of hundred years ago they were as vicious and vile, but these days they are, more or less, under control. Not that there aren’t a significant number of wannabes that would joyously join in the slaughter if they could, but, so far, they are constrained by the rule of law from living out their murderous fantasies. Not to say that if the right reaches it’s ultimate goal of a brutal theocracy that they would be any less vile, but that is still an unlikely outcome.
whatthe46 May 4th, 2015 at 11:26 pm
for you… http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/10-worst-terror-attacks-extreme-christians-and-far-right-white-men
StoneyCurtisll May 4th, 2015 at 5:33 pm
Pamela Geller claiming she is “defending Americas freedom” is a fugging phony as Uri Geller bending spoons with his mind.
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS3rHb86m6rQ18T2n1OEXJ2QrNXuTPnqlHBoG4gUz4cz9CrBbW1GA
Except Uri is just a con artist..
Pamela is a hate group leader.
StoneyCurtisll May 4th, 2015 at 10:32 pm
Bending spoons with his mind…
Bending minds with her hate..
https://nathanclean.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/o-pamela-geller-dc-facebook.jpg
Esau Carin May 4th, 2015 at 5:42 pm
Please review the First Amendment of the US Constitution. What a bunch of haters.
OldLefty May 4th, 2015 at 6:54 pm
What does this have to do with the First Amendment??
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 8:08 pm
Nice gun. Just add brains.
dave-dr-gonzo May 4th, 2015 at 10:18 pm
Compensates for… a little something, if you catch my drift.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 10:57 pm
I think you may be right…but you need to direct your comment to Esau.
OldLefty May 4th, 2015 at 6:33 pm
[Hmmm, I can see that we’re pretty much at the end of our discussion. Sir, I don’t know whether to go with the “Old” or “Liberal” part of your handle as a way of understanding and explaining your slippery logic.]
_______
I already told you that I am a woman, and I maintain that YOU are the one engaging in slippery logic, working backwards to reach the desired conclusion.
[I said I always read a leftists’ quoted articles because they usually support my argument, not theirs–as is the case with your article.]
_____
That’s what EVERYBODY says.
You didn’t make your case, you don’t even seem to have one.
Actually, most of what those on the accuse their opponents of is true of them.
But I’m glad that you are a legend in your own mind.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 7:31 pm
Madam, my humblest apology at mistaking your sex; I sincerely hope that is not a regular occurrence for you.
I shall endeavor once more to make clear my point: the article you sourced supports my point of view, not yours (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/10/drawing-prophet-islam-muhammad-images). The irony is that you brought it to me and I used it to undercut and deny the claim of your argument. Your claim: “Historically, there was not a problem depicting Mohammed” when in fact, this was only a corner case stretched–by you–to cover all of Islam. I rebutted said argument with the very first line of your article (ibid).
Now, let’s talk about something more interesting: you ! and why you think the way you do. Perhaps you can help me understand what is thus far highly illogical to me, misses a grasp of human nature and seems…well, a deceitful and ineffective way of thinking. In sum, most (ok ALL) liberals I’ve met with, from Uni Profs to folks like yourself, think they’re helping people when in fact they’re holding them down or back.
Look at your Blacks in the news in Baltimore (for example). They’re still living on the Democratic Plantation, chained as always, but now their minds are also chained. Continually voting Democrat but nothing ever changes…it just gets worse and worse for them. Your big Blue cities are all on their backs financially, even though Trillions $ have been spent on the War on Poverty, with a highly negative return as to the quality of life for those on whom it was spent. Help me to understand this.
OldLefty May 4th, 2015 at 7:51 pm
[The irony is that you brought it to me and I used it to undercut and deny the claim of your argument.]
_______
I did not bring anything to you you, it was an “Oh, by the way”, comment to cecilia.
[Your claim: “Historically, there was not a problem depicting Mohammed” when in fact, this was only a corner case stretched–by you–to cover all of Islam.]
_____________
There was no claim that it covered “All Islam”, only that there had been art work depicting Mohammed over the last thousand years.
[Now, let’s talk about something more interesting: you ! and why you think the way you do. ]
___________
Do you think that there is ANYTHING that you say here that is not said of you??
between your straw man arguments and your question begging, perhaps you need an informal logic class.
[Look at your Blacks in the news in Baltimore (for example). They’re still living on the Democratic Plantation]
______
Basically, YOU are repeating Republican talking points.
Nothing has done more harm to black people and the black family as the War on Drugs and the private for profit prison system.
The war on poverty came on the heels of Jim Crow, and did tremendous good; Poverty among blacks was 55 percent in 1959 and 41 percent in 1966. By 2009, the rate had fallen to 25.9 percent. For black single moms without a father present, the poverty rate fell from 70.6 percent in 1959 and 65.3 in 1966 to 39.8 percent in 2009.
It barely got started when cuts were made and we got the war on drugs with;
Blacks are more likely to be
sentenced to prison for the same crime than Whites. One third of people of
color sentenced to prison would have received a shorter or non-incarcerative
sentence if they had been treated in court the same way as White defendants
facing similar charges
Although
Black Americans make up only 12.7% of the U.S. population, they make up 48.2%
of adults in federal, state, or local prisons and jails. According to the 1998
federal National Household Survey on Drug Abuse (NHSDA), 72% of users were
White and 15% were Blacks.
Latinos
represent just 11.1% of the U.S. population and only 10% of U.S. drug users,
yet are 18.6% of the U.S. prison population and 22.5% of those convicted for
drug offenses.
On
average, 1 in 25 adult American Indians is under the jurisdiction of the
nation’s criminal justice system – more than twice the number of White adults
in the system.
42.5%
of prisoners on Death Row are Black, more than three times the percentage of
Black Americans in the national population.
In
2003, in the United States, White people were imprisoned at a rate of 376 per
every 100,000 in the population, compared to 709 per 100,000 American Indians,
997 per 100,000 Latinos and 2,526 per 100,000 Blacks in the population.
Black
males have a 32% chance of serving time in prison at some point in their lives;
Hispanic males have a 17% chance; White males have a 6% chance. If
current rates of incarceration continue, about 1 in 3 Black males, 1 in 6
Hispanic males and 1 in 17 White males are expected to go to prison at some
point during their lives.
Black youth are more likely to be detained than White
youth. Moreover, Black youth with no prior admissions were six times more
likely to be incarcerated in a juvenile facility than a White youth with a
similar history. Latino youth were three times more likely to be imprisoned.
Among persons over age 24, Blacks (11.2%) were
significantly more likely to be pulled over while driving than Whites (8.9%).
Among drivers stopped for speeding, Blacks (75.7%)
and Hispanics (79.4%) were more likely than Whites (66.6%) to be ticketed
Police were more likely to conduct a search of the
vehicle and/or driver in traffic stops involving Black male drivers (15.9%) or
Hispanic male drivers (14.2%), compared to White male drivers (7.9%).
http://sites.duke.edu/nchumanrights/incarceration-and-criminal-justice/
And what’s you excuse for whites on the Republican plantation Like deep red Owsley County, Ky, the poorest county in the USone Owsley County, where
unemployment already is 150 percent of the national average?
But then, Why let facts get in the way?
Wee Mousie May 4th, 2015 at 7:06 pm
Geller and the American Freedom Defense Initiative got exactly what they were after, a wounded cops and two supposed Islamic fanatics to tout, as they try to attract more haters and create more egregious assaults, either upon their followers by fanatic Islamic, or upon Islamic, of any stripe, by their followers.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 7:53 pm
It’s curious that no one decried the National Guard who stood ready to defend little Ruby Bridges who attended all White William Frantz Elementary School. Luckily, no one listened to those who, like you, whine about “egregious assaults and possibly wounded and killed. And there were some of those throughout the Civil Rights era. There was an equal or greater furor surrounding this, but the right thing was done. Thankfully. Standing up for the rights of others and yourself may require great sacrifice. Your American Left simply does not have the cajones for such struggles. But ankle biters have always hidden behind the very freedoms and sniped at those providing them. To wit: Michael Moore.
If your stronger Americans had given up on Ruby, what would be the state of your Blacks today (Yikes, it’s pretty bad in all your Blue Cities)? If Geller and others simply laid low, what would Muslims do ? Nothing ? Of course not: aggressors know a patsy when they encounter one. They’d immediately demand more. A better grasp of human nature is required on your American Left.
Wee Mousie May 4th, 2015 at 8:11 pm
I don’t mind grifters. Both wings have them, although the right seems especially rich soil for their growth. What I object to is a grifter whose method of gaining power and money is hrough pitting opposing fanatics against each other for fame and profit. She set up a few haters (40, I heard) in Texas to be clay pigeons for any local fanatic Islamic to take a shot at. As it happened, only two Islamic fanatics (from out of state) were killed and a cop was wounded, but Geller still gets her face time on television and, no doubt, the rubes will pour money in to support her “cause.”
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 10:07 pm
We agree. Both sides seek to avoid competition in the market. Instead, they pursue regulation to maintain their incumbency and market positions. I’ve noticed that Wall Street has moved from the Right to the Left in your country. In a rent seeking effort, they have supported The One and he’s rewarded them handsomely. Small guys ? Not so much.
And I understand your patience with Grifters…your country seems poised to elect the Queen of Grifting and Graft.
Wee Mousie May 4th, 2015 at 11:25 pm
I do believe the Queen of Grifters originally hailed from Alaska, and nearly all her runners up and ladies in waiting have an “R” on their escutcheon. The distaff, also, as I have pointed out, have grown especially pernicious in the rich red soil, both the ones bearing an “R” and the ones bearing a Bar Sinister “K.”
It is true that a “D” occasionally will stumble into error, even gross error, but seldom so egregiously, and even less seldom will they survive their fall. The right seems over-populated with the ethically walking wounded.
Regarding Wall Street, who is more to blame, the leader who allowed them to lead the country and the whole world into a depression, or the leader who worked with and through them to try to redeem as much of what was lost as possible?
EstebanCafe May 5th, 2015 at 1:28 am
I’m unsure of what your rant contains, other than overreach on a weak vocabulary. And I disagree with each contention. From Mr. Clinton’s first post presidential speech ($50K), including his loving wife’s rants for major coinage, to each of 1100 foreign donations in a quid pro quo transaction, there is no king or queen Grifter greater than those two.
As to Mr. Bush’s foibles, let it be said that a Democrat Congress can put one into the hole faster than a man can shovel himself.
Mr. Obama has not brought relief–every quarter’s results have been restated and are lower than the original projection. So let’s compare if a Republican was performing as is Mr. Obama….
If you had a Republican president right now, you would be treated to a merciless media pounding, night-and-day, on the series of strategic failures, mistakes and false starts that have characterized America’s war strategy in Afghanistan since 2009. We’d be getting constant reminders of how the President, who repeatedly said that this was a just war that America had to win, and who told you that you should vote for him because he wouldn’t let anything distract him from the vital task of winning said war, hasn’t managed to win it, or even end it, after six long years.
Fortunately there is a Democrat in your White House who, by and large, the press likes and wants to succeed. Thus your newspapers and television screens are blessedly free from invective, derision
and snark when it comes to news from Afghanistan.
President Obama has been permitted to fail in Afghanistan quietly and off center stage. You hear nothing anymore about the months of agonized reflection before choosing strategies that didn’t accomplish their goals. You never see mentions of his 2008 campaign rhetoric about Afghanistan—”the necessary war”—against which we might be asked to measure what
has actually been achieved.
Wee Mousie May 6th, 2015 at 2:49 pm
My sanity compels me to cease arguing with you.
“… a Democrat Congress can put one into the hole faster than a man can shovel himself … if your had a Republican president right now, you would be treated to a merciless media pounding … your newspapers and television screens are blessedly free from invective, derision and snark… ”
Obviously, in your universe, 2008 immediately followed 2000, and Bush, the Lesser, (so far) was no more than a nightmare brought on by a overindulgence in sane government.
Carry on. It is interesting, if unenlightened, to hear reports from a parallel universe where black is white, up is down and inside is outside. Living there, however, must give one a fearful headache, and cause extreme nausea. My sympathies.
EstebanCafe May 6th, 2015 at 2:57 pm
No one defends Bush’s excesses…but recognizing them, as you clearly do, you say nothing of an Obama INCREASE of the very same excesses, from massive borrowing to equally massive increases in drone executions and everything else he bitched about prior to ascending to his throne. He was going to ‘obey the law of the land’ then unilaterally violated it. You Americans whine about the former piss-ant but cut the latter a hall pass–your press included–why is that ? Imagine what we’d be hearing in the global press were a Republican in office doing the same things. That’s what’s upside down.
craig7120 May 4th, 2015 at 7:32 pm
Two people drove from Phoenix to Dallas to kill people, because their religion compelled them to commit murder if infidels don’t conform to one of their rules inside their supernatural belief system?
If these drawers went to Mecca and tagged their holy site, I would say, why would you poke a stick in a hornets nest?
Nope, I will not be intimidated by any religion.
If they’re insulted, to bad
What’s next, fundi xtians telling people they can’t marry who they want because it insults their god? or where they can eat because of their sexual preference? or pastors saying gay people should be killed?
WTF is up with people that make them act so freaking crazy?
Religion
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 7:44 pm
Nice how you tied the insanity of Islam to Christians. Do you see any Christians carrying out these acts ?
craig7120 May 4th, 2015 at 7:58 pm
Thank you
What acts? The pastors edicts or laws trying to be passed to legislate beliefs?
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 8:07 pm
You mean someone in your country goes through the legislative process to try to make desired changes in a peaceful and legal manner ?
Imagine that !
And you disagree with them and vote opposite of their desires ?
Imagine that !
Some people in your country are pushing gay rights; others vote against it. Some people in your country want to outlaw abortion; others vote opposite. See how that works ?
That process is known as “Democracy.”
And you would equate your Democratic process with Islam’s full throated beheading campaign ? This is the depth of Leftist argument in the USA today ?
Please come back with something more substantive.
craig7120 May 4th, 2015 at 8:26 pm
Skipped right over the pastors call for killing gays, I see. That is hard to defend, so let’s not talk about that, right?
So if people vote and a law is passed that says if you draw a picture you don’t like, or if others have a sexual preference that is different than yours we can kill you in the name of religion you’re good?
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 8:34 pm
So let’s talk about pastors calling for the killing of gays–you would equate this talk with Islam actually carrying out many, MANY gay hangings and decapitations ? Do you see talk vs. actual death as equivalent ? Please explain.
You have a constitution that precludes certain ‘majority rules!’ decisions by your people, as interpreted by your courts. The democracy piece is kept in check by this balance of powers. Moreover, your Due Process protects gays from being killed “…in the name of religion.” Always has and always will. And only an insane president would ignore these protections and run roughshod over the legislative and court processes, setting new and scary precedents.
Hold.
You have just such a president: “The Insipid One” is how he’s referred to here.
frambley1 May 4th, 2015 at 9:37 pm
There are people from the LGBT community in the US who are hurt by Christian hatred all the time. From being picked on, beaten, and yes, even killed because of who they are and what so called christians think of them. I would submit that the majority of time that an LGBT person is hurt in the US it is due to some person who’s hatred is inspired by so-called christian beliefs. Although Mr. Christ and Mr. Muhammed would probably both be against that type of action.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 9:55 pm
Citations of Christians killing Gays, please ? Provide citations for their “being picked on, [or] beaten.”
It has been my experience that the received wisdom of the American Left overstates & exaggerates. I typically trust, but verify.
whatthe46 May 4th, 2015 at 9:59 pm
GOOGLE IS YOUR FRIEND. just type in “gays murdered by christians”
cecilia May 4th, 2015 at 10:04 pm
here’s an easy list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_violence_against_LGBT_people_in_the_United_States
whatthe46 May 4th, 2015 at 10:06 pm
did you see how small the side bar is? but, estebancafe won’t believe it.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 10:56 pm
Please expound. “Sidebar” doesn’t mean anything to me.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 10:22 pm
I see ONE single reference to a Christian killing a Gay couple–while tragic, it’s hardly the mountain of evidence I expected from your posting. Again: exaggeration and overstatement–consistent on your American Left. And you would equate this to the many thousands of Gays killed in the name of Islam.
I also noted an error for the Matthew Shepard citation–who was killed by Gay drug partners–which has yet to be corrected. “October 7, 1998 – Matthew Shepard, a gay student, in Laramie, Wyoming was tortured, beaten severely, tied to a fence, and abandoned; he was found 18 hours after the attack and succumbed to his injuries less than a week later, on October 12. His attackers, Russell Arthur Henderson and Aaron James McKinney, are both serving two consecutive life sentences in prison.” No mention of their Gay status.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 10:23 pm
I see ONE single reference to a Christian killing a Gay couple–while tragic, it’s hardly the mountain of evidence I expected from your posting. Again: exaggeration and overstatement–consistent on your American Left. And you would equate this to the many thousands of Gays killed in the name of Islam.
whatthe46 May 4th, 2015 at 10:26 pm
liar!
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 10:42 pm
Your blinding use of logic underscoring your penetrating, insightful and disarming rebuttal aside, I am and remain correct.
Here’s the citation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_violence_against_LGBT_people_in_the_United_States
Simply “Cntl F” search it for the word “Christian”…it comes up one time only and one time only. Another sacred cow turned into steak ?
whatthe46 May 4th, 2015 at 11:14 pm
you are hopeless.
EstebanCafe May 5th, 2015 at 1:08 am
Read the link you sent me. Search for “Christian” and only one incident pops up.
whatthe46 May 4th, 2015 at 10:14 pm
kansas pastor wants the government to kill all gays; arizona pastor, aids free x-mas if all gays are killed; shoot the gays measure to go on ballot in california; new york church homos should get hiv, cancer and stds; OK school board member says he’ll wear purple if “queers” kill themselves. google more for yourself. i’m not your researcher.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 10:24 pm
This is egregious, but they’re just words. Did they actually KILL any Gays with all their sordid verbiage ? No ? That’s the point of the discussion: Islam doesn’t mince words and does what it says. Thousands of dead people. A lot of them Gay.
Dude, I’m not your accuracy verifier: you make a statement you back it up if asked to. That’s how it works. Otherwise I’m chasing down your latest wet dream.
whatthe46 May 4th, 2015 at 10:42 pm
you are in such denial. they have been murdered, beaten, disrespected, discriminated against, etc., etc., all in the guise of their “christianity” you can choose to believe it or not. quite frankly i don’t give a damn. you saw it, its been done, its being done and you could care less. its our America. its our sick pathetic “christian” extremist.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 10:55 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_violence_against_LGBT_people_in_the_United_States
Here is your citation. Search it and count the number of Christians involved in each case. ONE single case.
I think your received wisdom in this matter has been exaggerated and thus your belief is incorrect.
whatthe46 May 4th, 2015 at 11:22 pm
you can always google their names to find out who they were and what they were about.
EstebanCafe May 5th, 2015 at 1:06 am
Sir, I’m not your personal verifier of facts. If you want to believe they’re Christians due to your prejudice, go prove it. Otherwise, until I see data indicating it, I stand by my statement that you have overstated Christian-on-Gay abuse: there is only a single killing–nothing like the Islamist butchering going on.
Actually, I see more Gay on Christian (financial) abuse in your current news cycle.
dave-dr-gonzo May 4th, 2015 at 10:18 pm
You must be proud of these people, EstebanCrappé http://www.alternet.org/story/150899/how_american_evangelism_triggered_the_murder_of_gays_overseas
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 10:54 pm
I do not represent anyone but myself and therefore be neither proud nor ashamed of their actions. I can be sad that they’re killing their fellow citizens, just as I’m sad for the widespread Islamic butcher of Gays world wide…but you guys do not seem to want to touch that topic. Why is that ? Do you feel compelled to defend Islam because your American Right is arrayed against their predations ? If so, why would you let yourself be painted into a corner of support for such a mob ?
I do not understand your point.
Red Mann May 4th, 2015 at 11:11 pm
xx
whatthe46 May 4th, 2015 at 9:51 pm
so there were no gay people wanting equality before President Obama? there were no gay bashing by the “christians” before this President? gays are hated by so called “christians” and have been murdered by them in the name of their fake religion.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 9:55 pm
Citations of Christians killing Gays ‘in the name of their fake religion”, please ? And you would equate the many thousands of Gays killed by Islam with supposed Christian killings ? Seriously ?
It has been my experience that the received wisdom of the American Left overstates & exaggerates. So I typically trust, but verify.
We shall see what you produce.
craig7120 May 5th, 2015 at 12:27 am
Explain what?
That you’re ok with pastors calling for gays to be killed as long as no one acts on it? I get it, you don’t like gays. It’s ok, not one person who defends the gop denounced the pastors call for the killing of gay people so don’t feel like the Lone Ranger.
Sad indeed when ideology trumps just being a good person.
EstebanCafe May 5th, 2015 at 12:58 am
Sir, no one is “ok with pastors calling for gays to be killed”…and as such, no one decries their outrageous statements–outlanders all. And plenty of people on your American Right have condemned said statements.
And on that note can we stipulate that actually killing gay people–or anyone–is much worse than calling for them to be killed ? Moreover, Imputing that I don’t like gays is your statement, not mine, though I suspect there is more personal ownership and animus for it than you let on.
As for ideology trumping ‘being a good person’ that is exactly what we have with this echo chamber site: you Leftist appear to feel that you must defend the Islamic atrocities because your American Right is attacking them. Thus this article.
craig7120 May 5th, 2015 at 3:43 am
Ah, only when prodded is there a condemnation. Lemme guess you felt that murdering black men was horrible compared to setting fires but you were unable to convey that sentiment in this “echo chamber”, that you’ve already commented numerous times. I know, you guys are so misunderstood, all we have is your quotes and comments to go by.
I barely tolerate wasting my time typing replies, but as a lefty I feel compelled to show you the proper path.
You’re welcome
EstebanCafe May 5th, 2015 at 7:26 pm
Your insouciantly delivered arrogance aside, it is I who must hold his nose in these conversations. Your projection of words and beliefs on to me must help you live with your warped reasoning.
It is you American Leftists who have chained Black men to ghettos–they’re all “Blue” cities run for decades by Leftists. Trillions spent and wasted. And it is you Democrats who hung them: KKK all the way, right ? “Go Dixie !” was your phrase.
But you can change, if you try. I did.
craig7120 May 6th, 2015 at 1:07 pm
You should of stayed a compassionate person, changing into a person that defends the gop is not a change for the better.
But you’re young and impressionable, now run along you little scamp.
Good luck in life.
Kids say the darnedest things.
StoneyCurtisll May 4th, 2015 at 9:39 pm
http://www.theholocaustexplained.org/public/cms/70/92/204/268/yN7eKq_web.jpg..
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 10:02 pm
And this is what you come back with ? Non Sequitur much ? The very place you would send Christians ? I’m curious.
StoneyCurtisll May 4th, 2015 at 10:09 pm
Narcissism is a mental disorder..
You provide an excellent example.
Thanks for the learning experience.
whatthe46 May 4th, 2015 at 10:16 pm
scroll further down, he asked me a question i gave him an answer. then i had to play teacher and direct him on how to do simple research since he didn’t believe me.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 10:48 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_violence_against_LGBT_people_in_the_United_States
A single Christian killing of a Gay couple. And if you read it all, both killers actually left their so-called Christian church and joined the Nazi club. So the claim of yours that they’re Christian is not fully accurate.
Simple research ? When one makes a claim it’s best to provide documentation–do you read anything besides comic books? That is what those foot notes at the bottom of the page are. “Played the teacher” ? Is that you Obi Wan ?
And do you still equate this to the massive killing of gays that has taken place in the Islamic world ? You’ve yet to address that.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 10:45 pm
A picture of a Nazi death camp is your response ? My question is “obfuscation” ?
LOL, your Narcissist example is “The Insipid One”. Me ? I like to debate, but it does become wearisome if the opponent spaces out and cannot link logic to reason.
StoneyCurtisll May 5th, 2015 at 6:46 pm
I knew you would respond, (you couldn’t help but do it)..
And I also knew the response would be filled with denial, a self elevating statement and an attempt to disparage what I so vividly pointed out…
Classic Narcissistic Personality Disorder..
EstebanCafe May 5th, 2015 at 7:19 pm
LOL, and looks who’s responding, delicious irony flows from this echo chamber. But you DO have a difficult time staying on topic, don’t you ? You go for Ad Hom’s when you feel insecure–and then project your own disability upon others. Sounds like you’re quoting your Shrink’s diagnosis of your own disorder–which you clearly recognize.
Try. To. Stay. On. Task. No wonder you avatar is a “Squirrel !” Time for your Ritalin ?
Still waiting for the relevance of the Nazi death camp pic…this is my 3rd request: please try to answer the question.
StoneyCurtisll May 5th, 2015 at 6:52 pm
Try to pay attention…
Your response to my post, was you obfuscating..
EstebanCafe May 5th, 2015 at 7:21 pm
Focus up buddy: what is the relevance of the Nazi death camp pic in the context of our discussion. Simple question you cannot seem to address…sigh.
StoneyCurtisll May 5th, 2015 at 7:25 pm
Yawn…..
EstebanCafe May 5th, 2015 at 7:29 pm
I suppose you can now add narcolepsy to your list of mental maladies.
Still no explanation of the Nazi death camp pic ? LOL, wake up…
StoneyCurtisll May 5th, 2015 at 8:04 pm
What explanation do you need, other than the Auschwitz Gate??
Here is your question..
“Nice how you tied the insanity of Islam to Christians. Do you see any Christians carrying out these acts” ?
Here is your answer..
http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/105153-4/arbeit_macht_frei
EstebanCafe May 5th, 2015 at 8:54 pm
Socialists built those death camp gates, preempting and overriding whatever Christian principles they may have believed in. Socialism is a mental illness. I forgive them as I forgive you. You’re just simply ill.
OldLefty May 5th, 2015 at 9:06 pm
Actually, people who killed socialists built the camps.
And…
~ “I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so”
— Adolf Hitler
~ “The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God’s will, and actually fulfill God’s will, and not let God’s word be desecrated. For God’s will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who
destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord’s creation, the divine will.”
Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf,
~ “Imbued with the desire to secure for the German people the great religious, moral, and cultural values rooted in the two Christian Confessions, we have abolished the political organizations but strengthened the religious institutions.”
Adolf Hitler, in a speech at Reichstag, Berlin, January 30, 1934.
~ I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.”
[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp. 46]
~ “This human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existence of a religious belief.”
[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp.152]
~ “What we have to fight for…is the freedom and independence of the fatherland, so that our people may be enabled to fulfill
the mission assigned to it by the Creator.”
[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp. 125]
~ “It may be that today gold has become the exclusive ruler of life, but the time will come when man will again bow down before a higher god.”
[Adolph Hitler, “Mein Kampf” Vol. 2 Chapter 2]
~ “The greatness of Christianity did not lie in attempted negotiations for compromise with any similar philosophical opinions in the ancient world, but in its inexorable fanaticism
in preaching and fighting for its own doctrine.”
Were the Nazis “Christian terrorists”?
~ “I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty
Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lords work.”
Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered at Reichstag, Berlin, 1936.
~ “And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of his
estimation of the Jewish people.
When He found it necessary, He drove those enemies of the
human race out of the Temple of God.”
[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp.174]
~ “….the personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the Jew.”
[Adolph Hitler, “Mein Kampf”, Vol. 1, Chapter 11,
Does that mean that the Holocaust was Christian terrorism?
EstebanCafe May 5th, 2015 at 9:18 pm
What part of “National SOCIALIST Party” escapes you ? The fact that Soviet Socialists killed their own should be proof that killing Socialists doesn’t bother Socialists any more than killing Muslims bothers Muslims. Trotsky could not be reached for comment.
And note how thoroughly Socialism displaced any and all Christian values in the Germans and their followers ? Socialism does that. Just look to your many justifications for it. See how Socialism works ? You’re living it.
OldLefty May 5th, 2015 at 9:41 pm
Anyone can call themselves anything. What part of “The anti-capitalist ideologies of the SA leaders (and echoed by the restless masses) worried the big industry leaders who had helped put Hitler in power.
Hitler had promised them he would put down the trade union movement and Marxists, which he had done, but now his own storm troopers were sounding more and more like Marxists themselves.”, don’t YOU understand?
Socialism displaced any and all Christian values in the Germans and their followers ???
I think the prosperity gospel and Laissez Faire did a much better job of that right here.
That is why Gandhi said, ‘I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.’
Why would I think that you would know how socialism is or what it is?
Would you know Groucho from Karl Marx?
Actually, YOU guys talk more about “re-education…that’s why you had to rewrite the history books.
You are the ones with;
“To those who pit Americans against immigrants, and citizens against non-citizens; to those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists, for they erode our national unity and diminish our resolve. They give ammunition to America’s enemies, and pause to America’s friends. They encourage people of good will to remain silent in the face of evil. “
John Ashcroft
The presidential press secretary, Ari Fleischer, condemned Bill Maher’s irreverent comic response to 9/11 by reminding “all Americans that they need to watch what they say, watch what they do.”
Couple Arrested in West Virginia for wearing anti Bush T shirts at Bush Rally Settles Lawsuit for $80,000
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2007/08/secret-white-ho/
A good guideline with you is that usually whatever you accuse your opponent of is really true of you.
EstebanCafe May 5th, 2015 at 10:04 pm
Yes, don’t ever let a crisis go to waste.
Rewritten history ? LOL– and who occupies your USA colleges ? Socialists, one and all. What, pray tell, is the % of Conservatives teaching in your Uni systems ? That’s right: 14%. The rest claim a “Liberal” or “Socialist” tag–a veritable echo chamber of Socialist reeducation. And for all that vaunted “diversity” in your school systems, there is precious little diversity of thought–all instructors walk lock step in their rabid religious socialist beliefs, headed for a cliff. Socialism has failed every time it’s forced on a nation or culture. Half life ? ~70 years. 100 Million dead and counting. Just the facts, ma’m.
OldLefty May 6th, 2015 at 7:07 am
Rewritten history ? LOL– and who occupies your USA colleges ? Socialists, one and all
_______
You should attend a university before you call people socialists, (most are adjuncts who make minimum wage…. that’s capitalism for ya), but I doubt you know what socialism is.
Funny how all the info on “liberal” proffs come from conservatives who came out of the most elite universities.
Meanwhile, that has absolutely nothing to do with your rewriting the history books, where Thomas Jefferson is out (right wingers HATE him), and the “the conservative resurgence of the 1980s and 1990s, including Phyllis Schlafly, the Contract With America, the Heritage Foundation, the Moral Majority and the NRA are all in.
I noticed how you always respond to uncomfortable facts with tired old pre-approved Republican talking points.
Frankly, YOU sound like YOU have been re-educated by Newt’s 1996 GOPAC memo, Language; A Key Mechanism of Control, right down to obediently using many of the same Pavlovian words and phrases he prescribed.
That’s why David Frum said, “Republicans have been Fleeced, Exploited And Lied To by a Conservative Entertainment Complex”, to the point that there is now a market to change EVERYTHING that conservatives are uncomfortable with to a version that they like better.
And THAT is why the old Straussian, William Kristol said that the conservative movement has degenerated into a racket.
And by the way, ALL societies are a combination of socialism and capitalism.
The right prefers the Chinese model while the left prefers the Scandinavian model.
You prefer the system where we socialize the risks and losses and privatize the profits.
As for counting the dead?
Add all the deaths from the right wing…
Agusto Pinochet, Anastasio Somoza Sr and Jr., Alfredo Cristiani
Vinicio Cerezo Adolf Hitler, Ferdinand Marcos , Ngo Dinh Diem Sir Hassanal Bolkiah , Halie Selassie P. W. Botha , the Shah of Iran, Hitler, Gen Francisco Franco , Antonio de Oliveira ,Siad Barre , Papa Doc and Baby Doc, and Pol Pot (a byproduct of Nixon) ….
And THAT’s before BushCheney.
So spare me the GOP propaganda.
StoneyCurtisll May 5th, 2015 at 6:46 pm
Actually, that is were Christians sent Jews..(do a little research)
Your question was: “Nice how you tied the insanity of Islam to Christians. Do you see any Christians carrying out these acts?”
Don’t like the answer?
EstebanCafe May 5th, 2015 at 7:34 pm
Sir, it was the Socialist party that sent the Jews to the concentration camp. Don’t like the answer ?
OldLefty May 5th, 2015 at 7:50 pm
They came in under the name “Socialist”, then the first thing the did was to kill the socialists;
Ernst Roehm, was in charge of the Sturmabteilung which included many
members who actually believed in the ‘socialism’ of National Socialism and also wanted to become a true revolutionary army in place of the regular German
Army.
The anti-capitalist ideologies of the SA leaders (and echoed by the restless masses) worried the big industry leaders who had helped put Hitler in power.
Hitler had promised them he would put down the trade union movement and Marxists, which he had done, but now his own storm troopers were sounding more and more like Marxists themselves.
According to Hitler, 61 had been executed while 13 had been shot resisting arrest and three had committed suicide. Others have argued that as many as 400 people were killed . This was ‘The Night of the Long Knives’.
The Nazis believed that communism was dangerous to the well-being of nations
because of its intention to dissolve private property and it’s atheism.
StoneyCurtisll May 5th, 2015 at 7:57 pm
Yaaawn….
And what religion were Germans during the years of 1932-1945..(protestant/catholic)
Italy? (an axis power) nearly all Catholic.
Spain? who remained neutral during the war, but deported their Jewish population to death camps outside of the country.(catholic)
I see your attempt to try to deflect from religion towards political affiliation..(which by the way was ultra nationalism) and had little if anything to do with “socialism”)
Spain, Portugal, Italy and Germany, all fascist states, and all predominately Christian nations..
“you dont like the answer”?..
Do what you do best, go with an ad hominem response.
Red Mann May 5th, 2015 at 10:49 pm
HAHAHAHAHA!!!! You really think the Nazi’s were socialist because of the name? Really? Are you that ignorant? Do you think the USSR was really a Republic, the East German were really democratic? Jesus H. Christ, the Nazi’s were uber right, as far right as you can go, rather like to Tea Party and the rest of the RW crazy extremists today. Please, it is the authoritarians, whom live on the right, the fed the Holocaust. The same RW that is pushing towards theocracy in America today. Grow up, get in touch with the real world.
EstebanCafe May 6th, 2015 at 1:33 am
Wow, touched your soul, did I ? Sir, Socialism in it’s various forms, has murdered only 100 million people…let’s give it another chance. Morons like you keep bringing it back, defending it from the safety of your democratic republic. You’re just a little ankle biter.
Red Mann May 6th, 2015 at 2:12 am
No, you didn’t. You’re a RW loser with no serious knowledge of the real world and actual history, you just parrot the RW lying points you have been fed. The abject and deliberate stupidity of the right is very troubling and very dangerous to the survival of our country.
EstebanCafe May 6th, 2015 at 7:15 pm
Perhaps your country should jail RW people ? They do not think correctly and are “very dangerous to the survival of [y]our country.”
Yes, once a Leftist has sufficient power I’m fairly certain a strong case can be made to get rid of Climate deniers along with the other “dangerous” RW thinkers. What say ye, Red ? Got a little Gulag in you ?
Red Mann May 6th, 2015 at 9:26 pm
As tempting as the thought of shutting up idiots that are actually damaging our country by spreading nonsense that has negative effects, it will not happen. However, if the authoritarians gain total control, the actual thinkers would be rounded up because they would question the party line. Now that has actually happened and you, once again, have your projection on.
Jake May 6th, 2015 at 6:55 pm
Pathetic response. But I’ll give you a chance to redeem yourself. Name one catholic country whose army took up arms against the Nazi Party ( I’ll give you a clue – the answer is “NOT A SINGLE ONE!” )
EstebanCafe May 6th, 2015 at 7:12 pm
Of course it’s pathetic to you and the rest of this echo chamber–I’m here as the token Conservative–it’s my job. The Koch Bro’s pay my salary, don’tcha know ?
However, I do not represent Catholic countries (didn’t know there were any after King Phillip) and cannot speak for them, but I will say that when Socialism becomes accepted in such countries, they’re likely Catholic in trappings only–all good principles fly out the window.
I know you now: As with Dan Rather’s “Fake but accurate” rant on Bush and the Islamic “Lies that server the higher good are ok” you Liberals go all Utilitarian and “Lie for the greater good.” Doesn’t matter that Hillary is a “Bit Fat Liar” (to quote your clown senator)–principles be damned. Yes, I know you now. But I can’t believe anything you say. Lying is endemic in your camp.
Jake May 6th, 2015 at 7:20 pm
That’s okay I figured you would concede. If anything is clear from your posts, it is that you have a fairly poor grasp of political theory – to be honest I don’t think you have a clue what Socialism is. Other than Glenn Beck and Sean Hannitty – which philosophers have you read?
EstebanCafe May 6th, 2015 at 7:56 pm
Hamilton, Madison, Jefferson, Jay, Smith, Socrates (P’s R), Descartes (‘…therefore I am’)… etc., I do not want to admit to Lenin, but I have read him too, to my shame.
Hold. Are we in a political and philosophical peeing contest here ?
Sir, I have Socialism’s name, address and phone number. It is you who lives in an ether filled world–Nirvana hoped for but never seen (“because we didn’t spend enough money, kill enough Deniers, fill in the blank__________ etc.). As a Socialist, you have the thinnest grasp on human nature (“It can be changed — a New Man can be made !”) and zero grasp on Economics. These two reasons–there are many more–alone are the cause for Socialism’s failure everywhere it’s tried. Half life ? ~70 years.
I will check out Mssrs Beck and Hannitty.
Jake May 6th, 2015 at 9:12 pm
I doubt if you would get much philosophical enlightenment from Lenin. You still have not demonstrated that you know what Socialism is – and with each post you reveal more and more of the Fox News bar-stool preaching. As for the New Man, FWIW I have lived in so-called Communist, Socialist and Capitalist countries (Czechoslovakia, Britain, France and The U.S.)- all have their faults – but only the US regards Corporations as humans to be protected at the expense of the elderly and sick who are merely a disposable inconvenience.
StoneyCurtisll May 4th, 2015 at 9:23 pm
You are trying to debate with a narcissists..
There is no point in it..
The narcissist will always claim victory and debase and attempt to demean any response you offer..
What a narcissist hates more than anything is to be ignored…
Because attention is what they crave..
StoneyCurtisll May 4th, 2015 at 9:31 pm
..http://www.resist.com/updates/2008/NOV_08/DeutscheChristian.jpg
StoneyCurtisll May 4th, 2015 at 9:33 pm
http://www.stephenhicks.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/dragon-full.jpg
tracey marie May 4th, 2015 at 9:47 pm
Perfect!
dave-dr-gonzo May 4th, 2015 at 10:15 pm
Weiter, Christian Soldaten!
Red Mann May 4th, 2015 at 10:31 pm
Gott mit Uns.
bpollen May 5th, 2015 at 5:01 am
Of course I got mittens… All us Minnesotans have mittens.
Red Mann May 4th, 2015 at 10:34 pm
Here
http://skepticism.org/timeline/august-history/8034-german-protestant-clergy-loyalty-oath-hitler.html
Red Mann May 4th, 2015 at 10:37 pm
This: http://civrights.wikispaces.com/Ku+Klux+Klan+%26+Lynching
StoneyCurtisll May 5th, 2015 at 8:37 pm
Maybe something a little more recent..
On May 31, 2009, George Tiller, a physician from
Wichita, Kansas, who was nationally known for being one of the few
doctors in the United States to perform late-term abortions, was
murdered by Scott Roeder.
Scott Roeder is a Christian religious fanatic.
Who is now doing a “hard 50” years in a Kansas prison.
EstebanCafe May 5th, 2015 at 9:13 pm
Sounds familiar: two killers, like Hitler and Stalin, one survives their encounter and the other dies. Neither seems to have deserved life. Killers both.
You would point to a corner case aberration like this to prove…what ? Yet you close your eyes to the massive killing going on by Islam because your American Right decries it ? You’re a sick little squirrel.
heatherGirl May 6th, 2015 at 6:24 pm
It’s still every rare to see such actions taken by Christian’s. It is much more common to see such actions taken by followers of Islam.
And I think more to the point of this article is the idea that people need to avoid provoking followers of Islam……. I do not see anyone suggesting that people have to avoid provoking Christians!
There was a play on Broadway that made fun of the Mormon religion. Not only did no Mormon’s attack the theatre with AK-47, but no one rushed off to write news stories on how people should be banned from insulting Mormon’s!
But then again, Mormon’s are not going to threaten to kill you…… or cut off your head……. or blow up your building…….
tracey marie May 6th, 2015 at 6:42 pm
nonsense
Mr M May 4th, 2015 at 7:50 pm
So I call you out for being full of bologna you label me as a leftist? I haven’t mentioned anything about my views, but I know the US better than you.
Let me just say that 12 years as a visitor does not provide you with enough experience to be such a big mouth about the US. Your rants on this thread are ridiculous: full of assumptions and errors.
EstebanCafe May 4th, 2015 at 8:54 pm
“Call me out” ? “Full of bologna” ? Pray tell. I’m waiting for something besides “12 years as a visitor does not provide your with enough experience…” Tell me where my “rants on this thread are ridiculous: full of assumptions and errors.” That’s equivalent to just screeching, “Liar !” without offering any rebuttal. You made the statements, back them up. Simply trying to dismiss it is ineffective. That should get a good discussion going.
Mr M May 4th, 2015 at 9:31 pm
OK, troll, to deny that Christianity has a ‘preferred’ status in the US, and that privilege goes against the 1st amendment is not something I am going to argue over with a ‘visitor’ to the US. I don’t care how long you visited. Big deal.
And if you think xtians are immune from being hostile you are more brainwashed than I originally thought.
these dead clowns that went to shoot up this gathering of bigoted paranoid idiots are just a different flavor of the same zealotry. Remember GWBush said God told him to attack Iraq. Need I say more? No, because you are unreasonable, that’s how the faithful are….but God talked to him? Unbelievable. And it gets a pass, because why? Because it’s true? God told Bush to invade Iraq, resulting in thousands and thousands of deaths?
BTW, because you can’t figure it out on your own – NYC and LA aren’t exactly the norm in the US.. But that’s part of what’s great about the US, it’s not all the same. Nobody should have a preferred status. But you think preventing discrimination is some sort of special privilege, or you pretend discrimination doesn’t happen. Well your wrong.
James Miller May 5th, 2015 at 7:01 pm
I love how so many of you have opinions one way or the other on this. Really how much real contact do you all have with real Islam and not the fake “Americanized” Islam? I grew up in Saudi in the 80’s because of my father’s job and most of you here have you’re heads totally up your asses on both sides lol.
tracey marie May 5th, 2015 at 11:35 pm
and you and geller pretend you value life while calling for the death of all muslims
James Miller May 6th, 2015 at 12:50 am
Where in my statement do you see me calling for the death of all muslims? You stereotyping twat, your pea size brain cannot understand the idea that there may be a middle ground that is pretty clear. You close minded stereotyping trash can go eat a dick.
Hirightnow May 6th, 2015 at 3:53 am
No need for vulgarity, fuckwad.
tracey marie May 6th, 2015 at 6:42 pm
you are an animal and a fool
Anomaly 100 May 6th, 2015 at 9:07 pm
You’re done here.
Have a nice day though….
heatherGirl May 6th, 2015 at 6:18 pm
When has she called for the death of all Muslims…….. Please cite your source.
tracey marie May 6th, 2015 at 6:25 pm
google for ypourself lazy bagger
robert May 5th, 2015 at 7:46 pm
lets review the latest activities in texas ( in short )
Right to carry marches / demonstrations … check
border watch for illegal immigrants with tv personalities …. check
its not too hard to figure out that the trap was set and the bait was taken. need i say more ?
Red Mann May 5th, 2015 at 10:54 pm
No, it is not difficult to an intelligent, rational person, but it is difficult for a RW apologist to tell the difference. You throw the usual childish socialism remark because you wish to think you are smart, but you have simply bought into the idiocy from the right. Socialism is NOT inherently bad, it is necessary to moderate the untrammeled greed of the uber capitalist right. You are a very stupid person pretending to be smart.
EstebanCafe May 6th, 2015 at 1:28 am
Millions are dead because of both Socialists, Hitler and Stalin…please explain the nuanced difference to those dead people.
And that’s the point: there is no difference in the end result. Accept the fact–the millions of dead have.
Red Mann May 6th, 2015 at 1:38 am
No, regardless of your inane notion of history, Hitler was not a socialist and Stalin did not kill anyone in the name of socialism, he killed to maintain power. In any event Stalin’s implementation of communism was closely akin to religion with dogma, saints and gods. As per usual, your nonsense if firmly up your butt. You have no clue what socialism even is, just what you have been told by your RW masters.
greenfloyd May 5th, 2015 at 11:37 pm
It appears some Muslims misunderstand the whole thing about rendering an image of “God.” I doubt it started as a prohibition, but probably was more like a spiritual observation that man is incapable of picturing the enormity of a universal force some people call Allah.
OldLefty May 6th, 2015 at 1:21 pm
I attended 12 years of US schooling, including a BS from UC Davis and Masters from Saint Mary’s College (Moraga, CA). I have done post graduate work at Stanford
_________
So what?
All we get from you are the same right wing talking points we hear from anyone who listens to 90 hours per week of right wing media from Glenn Beck in the morning to Fox News at night.
You demonstrate NO idea of the American left, academic or otherwise.
The Texas textbook controversy indeed has expunged Jefferson.
One only has to look it up.
And the conservative movement has become a racket ever since they began implementing the Powell Memorandum of 1971.
There is no dependence upon the state other than the state that the right wing believes must be owned by Big Business.
That is why they hate the middle class.
Sorry, but I give you specific facts and you always counter with vague right wing fantasies and wishful thinking.
And the right has ALWAYS love dictators… One stop shopping.
That is what happens when you throw the “Father of Capitalism”, Adam Smith to the curb in favor of the ‘Mother of Nihilism’, Ayn Rand (Who, by the way turned to the state for the social programs she decried but needed when she was old and sick, and as a liberal, I am glad they were there to help her).
EstebanCafe May 6th, 2015 at 4:56 pm
What is it with Castro and the liberals? It’s still a good question. Mark Falcoff writes:
The cat is now out of the bag as far as American liberals are concerned. They have always secretly adored the Castro regime, and now they can shamelessly express their feelings, since our president himself seems to think the dictatorship on the island is quite all right. There are few examples as tawdry, however, as the statements of Governor Cuomo, who, while visiting the island, pronounced the kind of tributes to the dictatorship
one used to hear from Texas businessmen in the 1940s when visiting Trujillo’s
Dominican Republic.
Why do American liberals love the Cuban dictatorship?
Let me count the ways. First, it is a counter-example of the American way of
life (suburbs, tacky shopping centers, automobiles, uninhibited consumerism).
Second, it is a reproach to American foreign policy–if the Cuban dictator jails
dissidents, or tortures them, or deprives their families of their ration cards,
then it is OUR fault. If only we would be more loving and caring in 1959, none
of this would have happened. (The Bay of Pigs is often cited even though their
chronology is invariably wrong.)
Third–and this I get from a liberal with whom I had dinner recently–their love of Havana represents the obverse of their hatred of Miami Cubans, who are everything American liberals despise. Try as I might t explain to this guy that the people in Miami are far from his caricature, he would hear none of it. Their major sin seems to be the only
ethnic group that solidly votes for the GOP.
Some of the arguments I hear from liberals are really amazing. One I hear quite often is, “Well, we’ve supported many dictatorships in the past and even do so today, so what’s the difference?” When I ask whether they approve of past U.S. support (real ore alleged) of the Pinochet dictatorship in Chile or the Somozas in Nicaragua, they change the
subject.
The point is, they love Communism (in Cuba, that is), they love the Castros, they can’t wait to visit Havana, or so they tell me. So much for all their handwringing about human rights, torture, dictatorships, and so forth, that were their battle flags throughout the 1980s,
when the Cold War was at its height.
OldLefty May 6th, 2015 at 5:17 pm
What is it with Castro and the liberals? It’s still a good question.
______
Nothing.
It’s yet another straw man built by folk like those at the AEI.
More Conservatives had more love for Pinochet, the Contra, Franco, Saddam and Mubarak and the Sauds than liberal do have for Castro.
They just think the embargo is stupid.
EstebanCafe May 6th, 2015 at 7:00 pm
Yes, I didn’t think any of you wanted to get your tonsils out in Cuba, regardless of the liberal tripe about their superior medical system.
OldLefty May 6th, 2015 at 7:15 pm
Medical tourism is a booming industry, including Cuba;
http://www.newswire.ca/fr/story/376989/cuba-to-the-rescue
And now;
Americans May See Appeal of Medical Tourism in Cuba
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/18/world/americas/americans-may-see-appeal-of-medical-tourism-in-cuba.html?_r=0
EstebanCafe May 6th, 2015 at 7:44 pm
Yes, I recall the quackery of the ’80s as thousands of you Americans went to Mexico for cancer treatments predicated on peach seed extract not offered in the USA. LOL, that’s because they do not have the same standards.
And the BS in the NYT’s article of ISO 9001 as a “standard of cleanliness” is patent BS. I helped to define ISO 9K and 9001 (a small addition)-they’re specifications with which you measure what you’ve defined as your process standard. That is, they ask and audit whether you’re “following your process standards” or not. Regardless of how high or low your standards–you define those–may be. Yet another example of twisted Leftist pap. Spare me, please.
And so Americans flock to third world medicine once again because your FDA precludes certain medicines and procedures in an effort to protect you. Don’t you support your FDA ?
Seriously, if you’re thinking of having a 3rd world procedure, please contact your doctor first. There’s a reason they’re available only in the 3rd world.
Sigh.
OldLefty May 6th, 2015 at 8:02 pm
You need to look up medical tourism.
I don’t think you know what it is.
http://www.business-in-asia.com/asia/medical_tourism.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/stories/2008-11-09/medical-tourism-the-insurance-debatebusinessweek-business-news-stock-market-and-financial-advice
Paying Workers to Go Abroad for Health Care – WSJ
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB122273570173688551
Hip surgery in India? Insurance may pay –
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/25415614/ns/health-health_care/t/hip-surgery-india-insurance-may-pay/#.VUqq5tpViko
Medical Tourism: Globalization of the Healthcare Marketplace
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/564406_7
Rising popularity of medical tourism reveals deterioration of U.S. healthcare system
Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/007097.html#ixzz3ZPFe43ZN
Do some fact checking before you post.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/564406_7
tracey marie May 6th, 2015 at 6:41 pm
trolling and OT, what a loser you are
EstebanCafe May 6th, 2015 at 6:57 pm
That seems rough for someone bringing a diverse opinion to this echo chamber. Thought you’d appreciate it… 🙂
tracey marie May 6th, 2015 at 7:40 pm
trolling and OT, try focusing on reality
EstebanCafe May 6th, 2015 at 8:02 pm
Your “reality” is the problem. Again, the last thing a maggot discovers is the crap she’s swimming in. Pick up a book that opposes your views…I do. I listen to all your Leftist agitprop. Love it ! I already know what is true–at the very least what I believe.
You should get out of your muck to see something different. You may learn something.
Eight years ago I was just like you. On the other hand, you may, like me, be all the more convinced of your position. But you won’t know that inside this echo chamber.
C’mon, you’re a little Conservative Curious, right ?
tracey marie May 6th, 2015 at 8:02 pm
blah blah blah, get a life troll
EstebanCafe May 6th, 2015 at 8:27 pm
Truly, you want to hear only those things that support your position ? Hands over your ears, eyes shut, “blah, blah, blah–I can’t hear you” coming out of your mouth ? Is that the level of Leftist reasoning today ? Say it isn’t so.
No diversity for you ? Think about it Tracey…really think about it. Try something new. Listen to a different version of the truth. I did. I’m here now to debate what I believe with those of an opposite point of view. You should try it. 🙂
tracey marie May 6th, 2015 at 8:30 pm
blah blah blah, troll
EstebanCafe May 6th, 2015 at 8:44 pm
And here I thought you were in remission…still that is to be expected: the recidivism rate for Leftists returning, like a dog to its vomit, is very high. But I still hold out hope for you, Tracey.
tracey marie May 6th, 2015 at 8:48 pm
troll
LibertyDwells May 6th, 2015 at 5:11 pm
It’s wonderful watching the left eat itself over this. Seldom does leftist irrationality and impotent anger get put so clearly on display.
OldLefty May 6th, 2015 at 5:35 pm
Funny.
That’s EXACTLY what THEY say about YOU.
tracey marie May 6th, 2015 at 6:40 pm
trolling baggerish only makes you look ignorant
heatherGirl May 6th, 2015 at 6:16 pm
This is all so amazing to me! We have the left saying how you should not intentionally provoke……. That holding a contest to draw Mohammad was wrong because they knew it would provoke Islam was wrong.
………..So this means liberals will never hold another planned parenthood meeting, or another gay rights rally……. because Christians might find that “provocative”…….?
OldLefty May 6th, 2015 at 6:28 pm
This is all so amazing to me! We have the left saying how you should not intentionally provoke..
______
The right is saying that..
Nobody thinks this was done for anything other than to promote Pam Geller.