June 5, 2015 7:00 am -


Republicans continue to be out of step as social conservatives want no part of Caitlyn Jenner who identifies as a Republican.

Across social media, blogs and talk radio this week, conservatives painted an apocalyptic view of America. They said they felt frustrated and increasingly isolated by the country’s sudden acceptance and even embrace of transgender people. They see it as immoral and foreign. They drew comparisons to two darkly futuristic novels, George Orwell’s “1984” and Aldous Huxley’s “Brave New World.”

“People feel like they’re under siege and that the terms of the debate are now you either applaud it or you’re a bigot,” said William J. Bennett, education secretary in the Reagan administration. “It’s like American culture is being dragged kicking and screaming not only toward acceptance but approval.”

…The GOP’s struggle with the issue was evident by the fact that — although President Obama, Hillary Rodham Clinton and other Democrats uniformly praised Jenner’s bravery — no major Republican candidate had anything to say about her this week…

Dan Pfeiffer, a former senior adviser to Obama, argued that the electorate has evolved so quickly on gay rights in particular that Republicans risk sounding out-of-touch whenever they talk about these issues.

“Republican reticence and at times intolerance on LGBT issues is a problem for them because they have become a litmus test for young people,” Pfeiffer said. “Even if they’re conservative on other issues, if you break with them on gay or transgender rights, you look like a candidate of the past.”



D.B. Hirsch
D.B. Hirsch is a political activist, news junkie, and retired ad copy writer and spin doctor. He lives in Brooklyn, New York.

179 responses to Republicans Turn On Caitlyn

  1. allison1050 June 5th, 2015 at 7:14 am

    Of course they’re “out of touch”. Wasn’t it just yesterday that girlfriend Lindsey was going from station to station declaring that there should be a permanent presence in the Middle East with no more thought about what the American people DON’T want.

  2. Aielyn June 5th, 2015 at 7:24 am

    At some point, they’ll realise that nobody requires them to celebrate the change. Just accept it – something along the lines of “OK, so Bruce is now Caitlyn. I wish Caitlyn luck. Now, about the size of government…”

    What’s making them look like fools is that, instead of considering it a non-event, they’re trying to make a big deal out of it as somehow proof that America is doomed.

  3. OldLefty June 5th, 2015 at 7:31 am

    Why are they so obsessed with this stuff?

  4. fredoandme June 5th, 2015 at 7:33 am

    brave new world? 1984?

  5. Mike June 5th, 2015 at 8:00 am

    As usual, the republicans have misstated the facts…no one is asking you to approve of LGBT’s. We only ask that you treat them legally like any other citizen. You’re still free to spew christian hate and rhetoric…

    • Carmen Conners June 5th, 2015 at 10:38 am

      But they’re NOT women. Jenner is still a man. If he went through the entire procedure, while it could still be argued that-from a chromosome standpoint-he’s still a man, it would go a lot further convincing people that he was, in essence, convinced and committed. But merely dressing up as someone else doesn’t make you that person. If it does, then I’m a vampire, witch and fairy princess. Those were my last 3 Halloween costumes. Another point is that there have been a number of psychiatrists who have tried to state that gender confused people are battling a form of mental illness. If that’s true, then they should at LEAST be given the okay to proceed once they’re cleared by a psychiatrist. Not the shrinks that just say ‘ feel you’re a woman…here’s my signature’ but be given a battery of tests and session time. And no…not time to try to change their minds, but to make sure they are mentally stable. Those that are comfortable in their choice and conviction should have NO problem with this. And neither should outsiders. But if I have to undergo tests and continuous counseling to be prescribed ADHD meds, then I don’t see why we can’t have as strenuous. Standards for something this drastic.

      • arc99 June 5th, 2015 at 10:45 am

        I have to ask, why is it any of your business in the first place?

        This was Ms. Jenner’s decision, and clearly she has done a great deal more than just put on a dress. With all due respect, the process she went through is the epitome of none of your business.

        You can ignore the media reports if you like.

        • Carmen Conners June 5th, 2015 at 10:49 am

          Because Jenner decided to MAKE this a public event and debate. That was HIS choice and it becomes everyone’s business when I see sites like this attacking others for their dissension. Talk to Colmes…he decided to participate and all I’m doing is responding to his charges. You can decide to ignore my comments, if you like.

          • William June 5th, 2015 at 11:22 am

            “Because Jenner decided to MAKE this a public event and debate.”

            To be more specific. The left chose to say “congrats, that’s nice and good for her”. The right is the one that decided to debate this.

            Because for every single story concerning sexual identity that the right chooses to throw at us, we can throw back a dozen stories about preachers with hookers, family value republicans with revolving doors on their closets and sprinkle it with people like Josh Duggar and Hastert.

            Hiding behind the “family values” billboard and the Bible isn’t cutting it anymore for the right wing hypocrites.

            If you want to label that as “attacking others for their dissension
            “, then so be it.

          • Carmen Conners June 5th, 2015 at 4:15 pm

            WHILE Jenner posed in lingere on an internationally well-known publication and gave details about everything.

          • Obewon June 5th, 2015 at 8:20 pm

            Rudy Giuliani in Drag so many times. Now Smooching Donald Rump!

          • CandideThirtythree June 5th, 2015 at 8:34 pm

            You came looking for a fight, we were not bothering you but you people can never mind your own damn business, it is a fatal flaw of all conservatives.

          • dave-dr-gonzo June 5th, 2015 at 9:18 pm

            She can’t help but put her nose in Caittlin’s crotch. This reminds me of what Gingrich, Livingston, and Hastert did to President Clinton: they acted like judgmental moralist scolds while concealing their individual cornucopias of perviness.

            I wonder what Carmen’s kink is?

          • CandideThirtythree June 6th, 2015 at 12:54 pm

            Hahaha I hope she doesn’t tell us, that is one mental picture I can do without.

          • Anomaly 100 June 6th, 2015 at 7:23 am

            And that brings transphobia into the picture, so for that, I’m glad she did it in that way. Although, I was surprised Caitlyn was spelled with a K.

          • William June 6th, 2015 at 9:47 am

            That’s right, Jenner posed for the whole world to see, yet your side finds that disgusting.

            The difference is that Jenner embraces who he is.

            your side cannot.

          • Laura Clark June 15th, 2015 at 5:24 am

            If he embraces who he is, he wouldn’t be posing as a woman anywhere at anytime because he is in fact, born male. That is a fact! What he “feels” like is total nonsense and only the result of people having no mental strength and no sense of right and wrong! Some people want to raise children with certain morals and values and shoving this in our children’s faces every single day as well as us parents is very ugly and disrespectful and if I’m wrong for believing the way I do, I don’t want to be right. Stop distorting reality. Facts are facts and being born with a penis suggest that Bruce is 100% man.

          • Carmen Conners June 5th, 2015 at 4:16 pm

            Then stop whining every time someone like me disagrees with you! State your point, have a discussion then let Otho if nothing was said you feel would change your perspective.

          • Mike June 5th, 2015 at 5:05 pm

            Like I said above, no one is asking for your approval. I could care less what you think about gays and transgender people. You are free to like or dislike LGBT’s individually, as a group, or any other way you can line em up.

            In a truly free society of free thinking individuals living under the protections of a Constitution as we do, I can find nothing that disallows any of the behavior you have listed above. There is nothing in the Constitution that allows these people to be treated differently from you or I when it comes to the law. If Mr/Ms Jenner wants to be called Caitlyn Jenner I could care less. Whether or not he/she is/isn’t confused about his/her gender doesn’t matter one bit in the eyes of the law….people are free to be confused, it’s not a crime or reason to deny said person the exact same rights afforded to all citizens.
            That is the essence of the conversation we are having….you going off the reservation attempting to create hypothetical’s to support a narrative have nothing to do with the argument.
            If you are offended or disappove of Caitlyn Jenner, you are free to ignore the article and move on to something you find more pleasurable. No one is forcing you to support Ms Jenner’s decision. You are free to not only think whatever you want, but you can keep it to yourself and fight the urge to share that opinion with others in a public forum.

            No one is whining except you….

          • William June 6th, 2015 at 9:44 am

            Pointing out the hypocrisy of the right is not whining. Consider this. Newt steeped down because he was cheating on wife number two as he was impeaching Clinton. Livingston didn’t last long because his escapades were published in Hustler. Now we find the longest serving GOP speaker was likely a closet pedophile.
            Tell me more about your family values and your outrage at someone’s choices concerning sexuality

          • CandideThirtythree June 5th, 2015 at 8:32 pm

            No one was talking to you and you don’t belong here troll, you only come here to be evil. You belong on stormfront or redstate or any of the other right wing hate sites where people like you belong.

          • Laura Clark June 15th, 2015 at 5:16 am

            She is evil because she does has morals? Leave her alone and go live in your fairy dream land. Pathetic.

          • CandideThirtythree June 15th, 2015 at 8:12 am

            She has no morals, unless actively hunting down people on liberal websites to harass is your idea of morals.

            You are telling a liberal on a site called LIBERAL LAND to go somewhere else? You are an even bigger idiot than she is.

      • Mike Mastela June 5th, 2015 at 12:14 pm

        More ignorance from the right wing christian zealots… but it makes you wonder why they seem so interested in vilifying transsexual Caitlin Jenner while exonerating the child molester Josh Duggar doesn’t it?

      • CandideThirtythree June 5th, 2015 at 8:29 pm

        Well you got one of those right, you are a witch.

  6. jybarz June 5th, 2015 at 8:48 am

    Nothing new here.
    Repukes are evil and will always be.
    The only time they show empathy is when their own family member is involved.

  7. No way out June 5th, 2015 at 9:06 am

    Of course! Republicans hate women

    • klem June 5th, 2015 at 9:16 am

      Most sex change operations are brutal and primitive, and leave the patient as a mutilated freak. Its the dirty secret of the sex change industry.

      After paying thousands of dollars and suffering weeks of physical pain, these men just end up like Frankenstein’s monster. They spend the rest of their lives taking hormones and lying to themselves that they are a girl. Its pathetic.

      If Democrats think a bit of surgery and hormones is all that it takes to be female, then they have a lot to learn. Lol!

      • arc99 June 5th, 2015 at 10:42 am

        Jenner is a Republican. Please pay attention. LOL right back at ya.

        • klem June 5th, 2015 at 1:31 pm

          Good for him, at least he has some brains. You OTOH, not so much. lol!


          • whatthe46 June 5th, 2015 at 1:36 pm

            so either he has brains, or he doesn’t. he’s a repuke trans, and you have a problem with that. go figure.

      • Guy Lauten June 5th, 2015 at 12:23 pm

        I gather you speak from first hand experience? Second-hand? ANY-hand?

      • No way out June 5th, 2015 at 7:48 pm

        Well, you just keep tucking your junk, you’ll avoid the pain and the stigma

        • No way out June 5th, 2015 at 7:59 pm

          That was a walk off bomb. Thanks for swinging by Klem

          • dave-dr-gonzo June 5th, 2015 at 8:58 pm

            Is Klem’s last name Iddia?

      • CandideThirtythree June 5th, 2015 at 8:27 pm

        You are scared, say you are scared!

      • robert June 5th, 2015 at 9:58 pm

        chances are

        the surgeons are ALL republicans too Can you deal with that ?

      • Laura Clark June 15th, 2015 at 5:11 am


  8. Carmen Conners June 5th, 2015 at 10:29 am

    I’m confused…why is it automatically ‘bigotry’ when a group of people don’t support the choice of someone else? Especially when the person in question, Jenner, chose to put themselves in the limelight and KNEW there would be dissenting opinions

    • arc99 June 5th, 2015 at 10:41 am

      When you classify something as immoral or unnatural, it is more than lack of support.

      When you seek to pass legislation that restricts the rights of people, it is more than lack of support.

      The point is live and let live.

      • Carmen Conners June 5th, 2015 at 10:46 am

        Who’s legislating anything? You have a bunch of supposed republicans saying they think it’s immoral and not natural. Big deal. As you say, live and let live. If Jenner didn’t want the controversy, then he should’ve stayed out of the media and gone on with his life. So the fallout is his own doing.

        • arc99 June 5th, 2015 at 10:49 am

          So if you install a beautiful new stained glass window in your home, and someone throws a rock at it, is that your own doing?

          No the fall out is the doing of up-tight right wing busybodies who need to mind their own damn business.

          The fact is that Jenner was once the most accomplished athlete in the entire world, given his Olympic decathlon win. He has been a celebrity for 4 decades. How do you suggest such a person can stay out of the media when embarking on such a life changing event.

        • William June 5th, 2015 at 11:24 am

          Who’s legislating anything?
          See defense of marriage and the recent Supreme court decision.

          • Carmen Conners June 5th, 2015 at 4:14 pm

            What does that have to do with Jenner? As to defense of marriage act, homosexual marriage wasn’t recognized and now a group of people are forcing it to a vote! That’s the way the system works. You work to change what you don’t believe in. But what it seems like to me is that you only feel change should be one-sided. Sorry…there are others who feel they are on the side of right and working against you. So go fight instead of wasting your time here.

          • CandideThirtythree June 5th, 2015 at 8:26 pm

            You are a nasty, horrible excuse for a human being but no one is making laws just to make your life miserable, no one is harming you at all. You have all the rights and all the privileges and all the protection in this country and all the people you hate have none…do you think that is fair?

          • Laura Clark June 15th, 2015 at 5:10 am

            WTH? Just go prance around and believe everything is OK and acceptable. Do you not see there needs to be a balance of wrong and right? We have to raise children! I would never tell my son that it is OK to start dressing as a woman and have his penis removed because he feels like a woman! That is insane. I would tell him the courageous and right thing to do is use his logic and morals and not his “feelings” to guide him. The fact is, if you are born with a penis, you are a male and that is just how it is. And vice versa. Pretty easy fact to understand. And stop belittling based on someone hurting your feelings BC they choose to not distort reality. That is extremely immature.

          • CandideThirtythree June 15th, 2015 at 8:15 am

            Back under your bridge you filthy hateful troll, mind your own damned business…clean up your religious pedophile enclaves and your rape culture before you even DARE to speak to us!

          • Laura Clark June 15th, 2015 at 9:51 pm

            Lol, get mad at the truth. BTW, pedophile, I wouldn’t put that past anyone who has to hide from the world who they really are.

          • whatthe46 June 15th, 2015 at 10:05 pm

            pedophiles in particular run in your circles, your neck of the woods, in your churches, the louder they preach, the likelyhood they are the pedos, they are the ones hiding who they are. you are the one who’s living in a distorted view of reality. i guess you think the pedo duggarfingers was just playing with the sleeping children.

          • tracey marie June 15th, 2015 at 10:14 pm

            hey asshole, why do you have your comments locked. Do you not want people to see your true self, an inbred loser.

          • Laura Clark June 20th, 2015 at 1:51 pm

            Well, for one, I didn’t know they were set to private. Good day!

          • tracey marie June 15th, 2015 at 10:14 pm

            go back into your cave of incest, trolling and protecting pedophiles. Your son will run away from a you skank as soon as he can. Put down your pipe and shut your mouth.

          • dave-dr-gonzo June 5th, 2015 at 8:52 pm

            The big tell is that Carmen uses the “H” word – the gay equivalent of what the “N” word is for black Americans. Maybe she didn’t get the memo that a word that was used a half century ago in a clinical and legal environment (often to inflict cruelty on the subject) is now lingua non grata among normal, non-bigoted people.

          • whatthe46 June 5th, 2015 at 10:18 pm

            black people weren’t allowed to marry either. bi-racial couples weren’t allowed to marry either. it was called equal rights. you don’t have to like it. just suck it up and move the hell on. how have black people being allowed to marry effect your today’s existence? how has the marriage of bi-racial couples, effect your today’s existence? it doesn’t right? but, hell no say the racist and bigots before it was to be legal. THE WHOLE WORLD WILL BE DESTROYED! when i go to sleep tonight, wake up tomorrow, and go about my business, i will be as happy as i was, when i woke up this morning. why? because i don’t have the time or energy and certainly the need to worry about something that will never effect my breathing. i don’t know, for some reason it just feels good to be fk’n happy than miserable. talking to a rwnj, they would likely say, that’s a damn shame.

          • William June 6th, 2015 at 9:56 am

            You don’t get to regulate what I do with my time.
            I’m pretty sure that my 36 years in uniform, 20 of that being military has already punched my “go and fight card”.
            Nobody asked you to come in here and try to spread your medieval bullsh!t
            When and IF I stop seeing reports of right wing, holier than thou hypocrites caught with hookers, underage boys, drugs, strip clubs and filthy hands in corporate cookie jars, I’ll be happy to listen to your side.

          • whatthe46 June 7th, 2015 at 9:49 pm

            you sure did tell her. awesome. so much truth in that statement.

          • Obewon June 6th, 2015 at 9:57 am

            Conservative majority SCOTUS upheld the 10th & 14th amendments in legalizing Equal marriage in 2014! Conferring 2000+ Fed benefits.

            Equal “marriage wasn’t recognized and now a group of people are forcing it to a vote!”-Those are your RWNJ’s too delusional to admit they were on the wrong side of history in 2014 & lost! There goes the GOP’s last non-billionaire donors.

          • tracey marie June 15th, 2015 at 10:15 pm

            side of night….lol what an asinine comment. Bet you are single living with a bunch of rats

        • CandideThirtythree June 5th, 2015 at 8:21 pm

          Oh so you ARE the kind who want people who are not exactly like you to crawl away and die. It figures.

        • burqa June 5th, 2015 at 9:04 pm

          Jenner is not responsible for other people’s behavior. They are.
          This used to be a conservative “core value.”

        • whatthe46 June 5th, 2015 at 10:06 pm

          SUPPOSED REPUKES? really? what about the people that are your average everyday citizens that have done this? fk that. what about the entire tiny community of LGBT’s, that are not in the media spotlight, that have to deal with the disgusting criticism of the rwnj, “christian” “family value” hypocrites, child porn addicts, rapists, cross dressing (rudy) child molesting cover-uppers, child molesters, murderers, drug addicts, (and include police officers who have committed the same as above) lying, no good, sons of b’s, daughters’ born out of wedlock, parents birthing children out of wedlock, and the whole damn gambit? how ’bout that? the LGBT community (i can go into other communities but, i’ll stick with this subject) as far as the rwnj’s are concerned, they don’t deserve respect, nor do they deserve equal rights as a fk’n human being in this country of “FREEDOM!” and they are just as guilty of being in the same club they shout you should despise. read up. you just might learn a thing.

        • jasperjava June 7th, 2015 at 3:59 pm

          “If Jenner didn’t want the controversy, then SHE should’ve stayed out of
          the media and gone on with HER life. So the fallout is HER own doing.”

          FIFY, bigot.
          What “fallout”? There’s only “fallout” from right-wing knuckle-dragging narrow-minded nasty bigots like yourself. The rest of the world is happy for her.

          “People” like you are fast disappearing off the face of the earth, with every passing year. Good riddance.

        • tracey marie June 15th, 2015 at 10:14 pm

          No, your inbred kind are the problem.

    • William June 5th, 2015 at 11:01 am

      I think it’s not so much bigotry as it is hypocrisy. The right chose to circle the wagons and defend a molester, then condemn Jenner all in the same week.
      I don’t think Jenner is even a story.
      When something is labeled immoral, one must first ask “Who is it hurting? where are the victims?”. The right will be quick to tell you what is immoral based upon their religious beliefs and completely dismiss real acts of immorality that involve victims.
      The right has carried divine right to an extreme of convenience..

      • whatthe46 June 5th, 2015 at 9:52 pm

        show your lips william, i’m gonna kiss my screen! fine people call me a freak, but i’m smitten with william. he makes me laugh.

        • William June 6th, 2015 at 9:57 am

          “MUAH”..(now I’m blushing).

          • whatthe46 June 6th, 2015 at 2:04 pm


    • Chinese Democracy June 5th, 2015 at 11:16 am

      agreed …you are confused. Right wingers don’t just disagree… they want to deny rights
      you get enough attention yet?

    • CandideThirtythree June 5th, 2015 at 8:19 pm

      So what do they want the person to do, crawl away and die? It ain’t gonna happen!

      So they can either accept it and move on or they can be bigots and the kind of people who spend their every waking hour dreaming up ways to make their fellow human beings miserable.

      Which one are you?

    • burqa June 5th, 2015 at 9:02 pm

      It’s more than simply not supporting a decision and then going on about their business.
      That’s why you’re confused, you don’t see the emotional repugnance felt by those on the Right for whom this is their latest bete noire.
      It’s a conservative thing. They don’t like anything that shakes them out o a world they wish was petrified in place with nothing changing. Anything new gets under their skin and anything that has a wisp of something to do with a person’s sex gets their blood pumping and change + sex makes them angry and they feel the need to lash out.

      Damn, I miss David Suskind.

    • robert June 5th, 2015 at 9:05 pm

      its a classic example of the gop ” do as we say ” or we don’t recognize you as a republican. lindsey graham would be out of the closet by now if it was safe to do so.

    • whatthe46 June 5th, 2015 at 9:51 pm

      it has ALWAYS been “automatically” “bigotry”. where in the hell have you been?

    • tracey marie June 15th, 2015 at 10:15 pm

      because the law says so, period. When you hate for no reason you are a bigot.

    • whatthe46 June 15th, 2015 at 10:24 pm

      you are simple.

  9. StoneyCurtisll June 5th, 2015 at 1:47 pm

    To hell with Caitlin Jenner..
    I want an operation where I can be Dave Grohl~!

  10. Bunya June 5th, 2015 at 1:49 pm

    “It’s like American culture is being dragged kicking and screaming not only toward acceptance but approval.”
    I don’t understand. If you approve, great. If you don’t, so what? Nobody cares. I think the republicans are simply creating an argument just for the sake of arguing. Besides, Caitlin Jenner can always switch sides and become a democrat.

  11. richardstarr June 5th, 2015 at 3:21 pm

    Slight problem for those pushing this.
    “Caitlyn” prefers to be called he and him.
    So they can either be “insensitive” and use his non preferred referencer, or they
    can confuse their own supporters by not using the “she” or “her” that they want
    to use as if these people were female in the sense society uses the word.

    • Kick Frenzy June 5th, 2015 at 9:14 pm

      Bruce, pre-Caitlyn, was still using male pronouns.
      After the full change, she now goes by female pronouns.

      I know it can be hard to follow at times, but I’m sure the transition is hardest on the person actually going through it and not on random people trying to figure out whether to say “he” or “she”.

      • whatthe46 June 5th, 2015 at 9:50 pm


      • richardstarr June 5th, 2015 at 11:54 pm
        As of this time, “he” has not even decided if he will even have the full surgery.
        In other words, the full surgery still has not happened yet.

        • Kick Frenzy June 6th, 2015 at 1:23 pm

          That’s not the point.
          I wasn’t referring to surgery, I was referring more to when she let go of Bruce and embraced being Caitlyn.

          Either way, she now goes by “she”.
          If a person knows this and continues to use “he”, they are being purposefully derogatory.

          • richardstarr June 6th, 2015 at 11:14 pm

            Show me a link to a statement that Caitlyn now prefers “she”, not what activists “feels” what should be used.

          • Kick Frenzy June 7th, 2015 at 3:10 pm

            Well, first of all, the title of the Vanity Fair article is splashed across the cover that’s been plastered all over the internet… you know, the one that says “Cal me Caitlyn”?
            That right there means “she”, not “he”.

            But there’s also the second tweet she sent out on her account:
            “I’m so happy after such a long struggle to be living my true self. Welcome to the world Caitlyn. Can’t wait for you to get to know her/me.”


          • richardstarr June 7th, 2015 at 8:04 pm

            The first bit is crap, since names are not tied to gender.
            The tweet, however, is a substantive showing that the preferred pronoun is now “her”.

          • Kick Frenzy June 7th, 2015 at 8:23 pm

            Actually, the first bit isn’t crap as it’s part of a larger statement.
            She went from the male identity, “Bruce”, to the female one… namely, “Caitlyn”.
            That’s part of the whole “I was a “he” but now I’m a “she” narrative”.

            But, whether you agree with that or not is kinda moot as you know understand that she completely identifies as female and prefers to be referred to in that way.
            (Which means, I’m guessing that you’ll be using “she” from now on.)

          • richardstarr June 7th, 2015 at 8:43 pm

            What it means is that I won’t be telling people that Caitlyn wishes to use he/him. I will try to use only their name and neutral pronouns. I do wish out language had more of them that were not so awkward so that conversation can be as polite as possible. Jenner is entitled to a degree of courtesy, but not blind acceptance that they are now a “woman”.

          • Kick Frenzy June 7th, 2015 at 9:09 pm

            It’s not “blind” acceptance.
            She has made a very public transition.

            Gender reassignment surgery isn’t the easiest thing to achieve and what you’re saying is that unless a person has that surgery, you don’t consider their feelings as having any merit.
            The thing is, for many people, they can’t get the surgery because it’s prohibitively expensive.
            But, to you, that doesn’t matter… you want them to conform to your standards for how others should behave before they can be accepted.

            In short, you’re being a bully.
            If wish not to come across as a bully, or bigoted, you’ll have to realize that your personal opinions don’t define other people.

          • richardstarr June 7th, 2015 at 9:24 pm

            Crap. You are trying to bully me with emotional arguments.

            The fact I do not choose to look at Jenner as a woman when they
            clearly are not does not make me a bully. I don’t get in their face and
            post mean things and I do my best to mitigate any upset, but I no more have to accept their world view than you need to embrace the sincere religious beliefs of someone of a different religion simply because not doing so will “upset” them.

            I have no desire for my beliefs to “define” them, but I will not change my world view to accommodate them. Biology is biology. Changing the external form does not change somethings innate nature.

            Hell, you have the doctor from John Hopkins stating that transgenderism is a mental disorder, and depending on what you consider a mental disorder, people have a right to think that way.

          • whatthe46 June 7th, 2015 at 9:45 pm

            hell, you have a doctor from john hopkins stating an opinion. because he’s a doctor doesn’t make his statement a fact. it’s his personal opinion.

          • richardstarr June 7th, 2015 at 9:51 pm

            I’ve seen this argument before.
            A scientist agrees with you, its a fact.
            If they disagree with you, its opinion.

            If Jenner had a sincere belief that he was a horse, people would
            say he was crazy, he’s nothing like a horse. But because Jenner says they think they are a woman, its “of course ‘she’ is”.
            At what point do you draw the line?
            Changing the appearance of something does not change the fact
            of something. What is happening now is a political movement to alter what the word “woman” and “man” is to be more fluid.

          • whatthe46 June 7th, 2015 at 9:55 pm

            she doesn’t have a mental disorder. period. it’s his bigoted opinion. period. she didn’t attempt to change her species. that would be insane. she didn’t attempt to change her genetics, just her appearence. just because you can’t understand it doesn’t make it wrong.

          • richardstarr June 7th, 2015 at 10:02 pm

            Ah yes, disagree and be called a name.
            Can you see the irony? Probably not.
            The doctor is going by a clinical definition, you are going by
            an emotional one.

            Jenner did more than change their appearance.
            This is not the case of someone implanting cosmetics merely
            for their enjoyment like I’ve seen people do with devil horns and
            the like. Jenner has what appears to be a sincere belief that
            they are a woman and thus is altering their appearance to match
            that belief. I personally don’t care what they do to themselves,
            its when people try to get me to say that Jenner is a real woman,
            imposing on MY worldview to conform with THEIRS we have a problem. A Rose dyed blue is still a Rose.

          • whatthe46 June 7th, 2015 at 10:18 pm

            what clinical definition? the one he’s come up with?

          • richardstarr June 7th, 2015 at 10:25 pm

            He’s the doctor of psychiatry, not I.
            When he makes a presentation on his field of expertise it is reasonable to assume that such an individual for such a prestigious hospital might know a bit about what they are talking about. We are not talking about some guy from a 3rd rate school who just graduated. He is University Distinguished Professor of Psychiatry at John Hopkins with decades of experience in his field.


          • whatthe46 June 7th, 2015 at 10:50 pm

            if he’s so correct in his “assessment” then why aren’t they all just committed to some institution? because they are not mentially ill. and not all doctors are always correct in their assessments. besides, who is she hurting anyway? or any trans for that matter?

          • richardstarr June 7th, 2015 at 11:01 pm

            You’ve partially answered your own question.
            Their beliefs are not generally a danger to themselves or others.
            But that’s not the point. The point in question is the expectation that others need to a “accept” them a women.
            If they are insane, there is zero reason, if they are not insane
            there is still zero reason. They are due tolerance just like we
            do any number of world views. The difference here is that anyone
            not sharing the world view that Jenner should be thought of as a real woman is attacked and bullied in the attempt to stifle this political movement.

          • whatthe46 June 7th, 2015 at 11:04 pm

            you can accept it or not. i don’t care. my point is it’s not harming you, it’s not affecting your life in any negative way or anyone elses. if she’s happy, then so be it. she doesn’t need to answer to anyone.

          • richardstarr June 8th, 2015 at 12:01 am

            How nice that you “don’t care”.
            Thing is, you will attack anyone that uses male pronouns to
            refer to Jenner.

          • whatthe46 June 8th, 2015 at 12:06 am

            actually i wouldn’t. i’m attacking those that think this should be a political debate and those that preach against her decision, cause it ain’t christian, when those that speak the loudest, happen to be child molesters and closet homosexuals. the duggars are, along with repukes, denouce this as it is a gateway to child rapist or molesters, when the entire time they are the ones covering up their sick twisted behaviors.

          • richardstarr June 8th, 2015 at 12:39 am

            Fair enough.
            I’m of the opinion that what an adult does to their own body with
            their own money is their own business. They don’t get to impose
            their worldview on Jenner either.

          • tracey marie June 7th, 2015 at 11:25 pm

            “they” are women, or in some cases men.

          • tracey marie June 7th, 2015 at 11:35 pm

            This is NOT political, but the right try’s to make it so. With all the faux xtian bills and laws taking equality away from women, GLBT people you guys are killing yourselves

          • whatthe46 June 7th, 2015 at 11:47 pm

            that’s because they have absolutely nothing else to argue about. so, it’s attack the weakest, the minority and use it as a political debate, when it matters not. it has aboslutely nothing to do with foreign policy or the economy. but weak minded people like him will ignore all that because of ignorance and bigotry. pathetic.

          • richardstarr June 8th, 2015 at 12:02 am

            And your very statement shows that it is indeed political.
            Once the right stopped trying to seriously stop gay rights, the left
            needed a new thing so that they could attack them. I just have to
            wonder if there is anything left after that.

          • whatthe46 June 8th, 2015 at 12:12 am

            since when? the supreme court is weighing in on gays right to marry. wrnj’s are warning it will be the end of times if they rule in their favor. they are doing everything in their power, as we speak, to fight their wanting equal rights.

          • richardstarr June 8th, 2015 at 12:55 am

            If you look at the mainstream GOP you will see that at best they are paying lip service to the anti-gay and anti-abortion movements.

            Look at what happened under Bush Jr.when they had the house, senate, and presidency. Nothing was passed on abortion.

            Eventually the Supreme Court will rule that the constitution clearly
            states that the other states need to recognize the marriages created in other states and as long as you have even one state that choose to do so via the will of the people as opposed to the judges, that’s all she wrote.

          • whatthe46 June 8th, 2015 at 1:13 am

            but, has it stopped them from making the same argument over and over and over and over and over again? NO!!! we are still going through this fk’n debate over women’s rights to their own bodies. can’t remember the repukes name but he went on so far as to say he wants to ban birth control. what is it that the repukes are discussing on a daily basis, that has already been ruled regarding equal rights for all (including the LGBT community) to include a womens reproduction? gay marriage and abortion. everyday.

          • richardstarr June 8th, 2015 at 1:18 am

            Yes, there are still those idiots that push that agenda, but
            its not part of the mainstream, just like you have leftists pushing
            redistribution of wealth stuff that is not fully embraced either.

          • whatthe46 June 8th, 2015 at 1:47 am

            i would challenge you to research every rwnj politician who is running for office and you will find this subject and abortion is all the ravings of lunatics with nothing worthy to speak on. the duggars hid molestation and quite a number of rwnj’s are found to have some form of relationship with them and when this came out, huckafuk stood up for the molestation, but wants to crucify jenner. now, which is worse, child molestation or a transgender person. according to the duggars and other rwnj’s, transgenders are just looking for a reason to molest. i would say that’s a hellofa desperate person, to undergo a massive transition to molest children.

          • richardstarr June 8th, 2015 at 1:50 am

            I live in California, no GOP has a chance anymore of getting elected in the areas I live in. lol.
            In any case, I’d vote against someone trying to kill marriage equality or abortion rights, though hopefully the other side was
            not equally idiotic.

          • tracey marie June 8th, 2015 at 12:03 pm

            bwahahaha, 1000’s of anti-gay bills have been tried in all the states by teabaggers, many have passed. Stop lying and own your homophobia.

          • richardstarr June 8th, 2015 at 12:39 pm

            Yep, for you its political.

            The use of “tea baggers” which is a homosexual sex act
            to refer to members of the tea party movement shows it.
            I have friends who happen to be homosexual, lesbian to
            be precise as well a few that are poly, some asexual, and
            at least one who is a true bi-sexual who only has monogamous
            relationships. I neither fear nor dislike anyone that is gay
            simply for being gay. I’m sure that some of the people I
            dislike might be gay, but on the whole the ones I’ve known
            were gay tend to be better people. *shrug*

            You might be gay, but I dislike you because you are annoying.
            You see, people don’t dislike you because you are gay, they
            dislike you because you are an pompous self righteous asshole.

          • tracey marie June 8th, 2015 at 3:31 pm

            you should have thought about your own self chosen nickname before printing the shirts, it still cracks me up.

          • Kick Frenzy June 8th, 2015 at 12:24 am

            Ones gender identity is not a “world view”, which is part of why this is so hard for you to wrap your head around it.
            You see it as someone making a choice to act like a woman, while the reality is that they always identified as female (or realized it somewhere along the way) and finally get brave enough to make the outside look how the inside identifies.

            When I argue against you for refusing to use pronouns, it’s not because I want to stifle a political movement.
            It’s because what you’re doing is mean and is equivalent to having the “world view” that inter-racial marriage is wrong.
            The entire premise of your argument, and everyone who presents it, is flawed in each point that it stands on.

          • richardstarr June 8th, 2015 at 12:51 am

            Gender identity IS world view.
            They have a sincere belief that they are women, and I don’t agree.
            I’m not acting to impose anything on them, I just intend to continue
            my sincere belief that they are NOT women.
            What they call themselves or do to their bodies is their business.
            Demanding that I also refer to them in a way inconsistent with my
            worldview is mine.
            You feel it is acceptable to impose on others in that fashion, and I don’t.

          • Kick Frenzy June 8th, 2015 at 1:05 am

            You ARE imposing on them.
            You are imposing on them with your refusal to treat them with respect.

            And no, it’s not a world view.
            A world view is an opinion, this is not a matter of opinion for the transgender community.
            It is who they are, to the core of their soul.

            And your limited understanding of biology is your basis for refusing to treat them with common decency.

            Bah… I’m done.

          • richardstarr June 8th, 2015 at 1:12 am

            More crap.
            They are accorded the respect of being addressed by their
            chosen names.

            And while the “community” may accord this as something beyond world views, just keep that in mind when radical Islamic types start murdering you because they consider their world view more important and thus can impose their belief system on you.

            The same freedom that has allowed you to come out must be accorded to others else you make yourself vulnerable to those
            who will not tolerate your existence at all.

          • Kick Frenzy June 8th, 2015 at 3:14 am

            You have a choice, they don’t

            (Extreme religious actions are also a choice… whether that’s ISIS killing local civilians or Christians in America killing doctors. Both of which are easily outside the right to basic equality.)

          • tracey marie June 7th, 2015 at 11:24 pm

            a phobe with a degree is still a phobe.

          • whatthe46 June 7th, 2015 at 11:32 pm


          • richardstarr June 8th, 2015 at 12:48 am

            Claiming that someone is a “phobe” because they disagree with
            you opinion is bigoted, especially when your opinion has less of a scientific basis than theirs. You “feel” Jenner should be considered a woman just “because”.

          • whatthe46 June 8th, 2015 at 3:52 am

            so what do you call a person who shouts the loudest about homosexuals, and vote against every right they should be given as a human being in this country, then come to find out, they themselves are homosexuals?

          • richardstarr June 8th, 2015 at 11:25 am

            I call them self-loathing hypocrites.
            Often they are people that have been converted to a faith that does
            not tolerate homosexuals and the newly converted tend to feel
            very strongly about their faith, adopting “catholic” attitudes that
            don’t give them as much room to act rationally.

            If the only reason you are against something is a religious one, I find it very hard to agree with you. Part of what makes this country great is its evolution to avoid allowing religions to interfere with the lives
            of people who don’t share that faith.

          • tracey marie June 8th, 2015 at 12:01 pm

            No I am calling you a phobe because of your words that show you are.

          • tracey marie June 7th, 2015 at 11:20 pm

            No one expects your kind to accept anything, we do however expect you to not denigrate or attack, and roses come in blue.

          • tracey marie June 7th, 2015 at 11:24 pm

            now you just sound ignorant, why is it your kind always resort to animal straw men when you are trying to lie and say you are not a phobe?

          • Laura Clark June 15th, 2015 at 4:50 am

            Why is it that your kind have no limits, no morals? He is right, where is the line drawn? Distorting reality is in fact, a mental health issue. Being born with a penis and claiming to really be a woman and then to change your appearance to identify with the sex you feel like instead of the sex you are born as, is distorting reality. Suck it up and accept yourself! Now, isn’t that real courage?

          • tracey marie June 7th, 2015 at 11:23 pm

            The biology is changed as well with hormones.

          • richardstarr June 8th, 2015 at 12:46 am

            Biology is made to look different.
            Stop the hormones and the changes revert.

          • whatthe46 June 8th, 2015 at 1:30 am

            and those who are born with both sexes? and furthermore, embroys start off as females.

          • richardstarr June 8th, 2015 at 1:40 am

            Yes, we all start off “mostly” as female in form but genetics take hold. While underdevelopment we look nothing like what we or DNA says we shall be.

            As to those rare individuals born with both sexes, since they are both biologically they have a much more legitimate claim at knowing what they truly are without it being a function a potential mental disorder. I do feel sympathy for those children who were
            born with both and had their sex arbitrarily assigned by a doctor when it does not match their inner biology. *shrug*

            Part of the problem goes back to being so aware of Jenner.
            If I never was aware that Jenner was once Bruce, I’d simply
            assume that Caitlyn was female. Well, at least until they talked.

          • whatthe46 June 8th, 2015 at 1:59 am

            “…we all start off “mostly” as female in…” ah, we can’t “mostly,” we either do or we don’t. fact is we do. it’s determined at conception, male or female, but, we start out females until development takes over. i think that’s why one can’t argue that someone who is gay chose that for themselves. it’s a part of the hormones that are stronger or rather more pronounced if you will in some. that’s why they feel the way they feel.

            you can try this on if you choose to:


          • richardstarr June 8th, 2015 at 2:22 am

            Actually, the physical manifestations that appear are female, but development is already programmed in the DNA. It’s not like you start off with a female fetus and then the womb adds the additional chromosome.

            I’m not sure why gay people are gay, but I have enough friends among that group tell me that they always knew and I just assumed that it was built in.

            If its simply a matter of hormones it makes it sound like you could administer something while young to ensure they will be straight.

          • whatthe46 June 8th, 2015 at 2:47 am

            all i know is this. and forget science and all the hoopla. i am not your judge. i am not your juror. i am not your executioner. i am a mere mortal who just wants to fk’n manage through this life while i’m here. i just want to be fk’n happy. if being who you feel you are doesn’t hurt anyone then, more power to you. you were born in this world with rights. just because of your sexual orientation or your preferred gender identity doesn’t mesh with everyone else is their problem. but the moment those that want to spit in your face and raise hell because they don’t agree and use religion to screw over the constitution when religion is not a valid reason to ammend the constitution pisses me off to no end. because as we’ve noticed and have known since the dawn of dirt, those that speak the loudest are the dirtiest. and they are politicians and so called “christians.”

            “If its simply a matter of hormones it makes it sound like you could administer something while young to ensure they will be straight.” would you like someone to counter that administration and use it to make you gay? nope. you would have to believe and it makes sense that they were in fact born that way, because no one in their right minds, would want to go through life ( choosing) being discriminated against and hated and called anti-christ or beaten or murdered over a choice. people aren’t choosing to be born “black” “asian” “hispanic” etc., etc. they go through life hated (by ignorant asses) specifically because they were born that way. people who are gay are not blind to see what those born the way they are physically have a difficult time in life, so it makes no sense to choose to be in that club. again, google repukes who shout the loudest about gays and lesbians and the whole LGBT community, are found to be the biggest bigots and hypocrites. huckafuk got pissy over President Obama and his wife over letting their girls listen to beyonce. but, this freak of nature and hypocrite, has a son who tortured and murdered a dog and hangs out with nugent and believe molesting 5 little girls by the duggars’ son was just a mistake. sorry to rant, but hypocracy just boils my blood.

          • richardstarr June 8th, 2015 at 11:19 am

            Not a fan of hypocrisy from the left or the right.
            Hate of people that are different than you but do you no harm
            is just dumb. Hate against those who would do you harm is more
            appropriate, though it can be a waste of time and resources that
            can be better applied elsewhere.

            If you can’t keep your hands off of kids, then you should not allowed
            near kids. Hurting animals without cause is one of those signs that
            something is not “right” about them.

          • Kick Frenzy June 8th, 2015 at 12:09 am

            Your refusal to refer to Caitlyn as a “she” is based on religion.
            There are other passages in that religion that you do not follow, even though they require drastic measures as well.
            To lean on religion so heavily for something that is being cherry-picked is disingenuous at best.

            That world view is bigoted and just as wrong as slavery, which was also just fine according to religious text.

            What you don’t seem to understand is that you’re essentially saying they aren’t equal.
            They aren’t as much of a human as you are.
            But, carrying around that attitude and disrespecting someone by refusing to use pronouns is offensive, and yes… a form of bullying.
            It feeds into the greater “anti” attitude, which just builds on ugly attitudes and behaviors.

          • richardstarr June 8th, 2015 at 12:45 am

            My world view is based on biology.
            It’s also based on what in my mind is the definition of man
            and woman.

            I don’t consider Jenner’s actions a “sin” or other such nonsense.
            Again, we are talking acceptance vs tolerance here.
            You are being intolerant of others that don’t embrace Jenner as woman.

            If I went around making a claim I was a fantastic singer, and perhaps was deluded enough to think I was, and started to call everyone who did not embrace the idea of me as a great singer
            as a bigot I would be labeled a loon.

            This is not about Jenner being Human, nor is it about them being “equal”, its about the expectation of parts of society to embrace the idea that you can undergo an operation to change your sex, and you can’t. You can change appearances, you can’t change reality.

          • Kick Frenzy June 8th, 2015 at 1:02 am

            And I’m telling you that your insistence that your “reality” is equal in stature as the one where people are treated with dignity.

            Your understanding of biology, I’m guessing, does not cover all of the intricacies of gender according to DNA and biological processes.
            There are several different possible explanations that all relate to biologically being a different sex than what your outward organs are.

            And to compare someone’s identity of who they are to the core of their soul to your singing abilities is just… well, it’s just ridiculously unequal.

            In my opinion, treating someone sub-par because you don’t agree with the sex they identify with, especially when basing it on a limited understanding of biology, is just being willfully hurtful.
            Just think how Caitlyn would act if you met her and refused to use her first name or female pronouns… do you think she wouldn’t notice?
            And that goes for every single transgender person on the planet.

            Anyway… I don’t feel like going over this a million times.
            I’ve said what I have to say, I don’t see how I could make it any clearer.

          • richardstarr June 8th, 2015 at 1:08 am

            You still don’t get it.
            You feel you can rank things and impose that view on others.
            Well, your view point is not as important as X, so you must change.

            I’m not treating anyone “sub par”. I address them by their chosen names.

          • whatthe46 June 8th, 2015 at 1:24 am

            “You feel you can rank things and impose that view on others.
            Well, your view point is not as important as X, so you must change.” but isn’t that what the repukes do everyday? they want to enforce their religious beliefs down everyones throat? they speak of family values and have absolutely NONE. they are rapist, murderers, child molesters, child abusers, they engage in domestic violence, homosexuality, etc., etc.. and they call themselves “christians.” they don’t have a moral fiber in their disgusting little bodies. tell me i’m lying. and if i am. prove it.

          • richardstarr June 8th, 2015 at 1:27 am

            You seem to believe I embrace the GOP’s worldview, and I don’t.
            I don’t want THEM to impose THEIR worldview on me either.

          • whatthe46 June 8th, 2015 at 1:41 am

            then my apologizes. but, that’s not the way you sound. you seem to think that the LGBT community is trying to make everyone embrace them and that they are shoving it in everyones face for acceptance. they are asking for respect in the form of equality. accept it or not, is up to each individual, but have respect for their rights. the same as you and i have.

          • Kick Frenzy June 8th, 2015 at 3:27 am

            You’re not calling Caitlyn by her chosen name, you’ve already stated you refuse to do so.
            No proper name and no gender specific pronouns.
            That is exactly sub-par treatment… you are treating her (and anyone like her) with derision.

            I’ll agree that for you, it’s a world view.
            And that’s the disconnect.
            Being transgender isn’t a world view or an opinion, it’s who they are as people.
            You insult them every time you refuse to use a gender specific pronoun.

            Feel free to be confused about how it all works, but for the love of a decent and humane society, please just show other people some basic respect.

          • richardstarr June 8th, 2015 at 11:34 am

            Actually, I’ve been using Jenner since I know how to spell it correctly. And using a gender specific pronoun that does not
            agree with my world view is hypocritical/patronizing. What you
            are asking for goes far beyond “basic respect” you are asking
            for accommodation and its been done via an appeal of emotional blackmail which, quite frankly, irritates me in a manner that makes
            me far more contrarian than I would like.

            At the moment what I see is a man with a deep voice and a boob job. This does not register as a “woman”. If Jenner gets full reassignment I’m likely to try harder to refer to them using feminine pronouns, but I don’t see it happening prior to that.

          • Kick Frenzy June 8th, 2015 at 3:28 pm

            I haven’t used any type of blackmail, emotional or otherwise.
            I’ve stated facts and explained things using appropriate words.
            When I say your world view comes from a place of ignorance, I’m not saying that to enrage you or employ emotional blackmail… I’m saying that because your view is lacking knowledge and understanding(i.e., ignorant) of the topic at hand.

            If you find those terms offensive, then maybe you should take another look at your world view… but try looking at it from a non-emotional, 3rd person perspective.

          • richardstarr June 8th, 2015 at 4:27 pm

            I use the term world view because saying that people who have a struggle with matching their physical form with the gender they feel they should be as something else is impolite. I’ll leave it to the psychiatrists to label them sane or otherwise. Considering that homosexuality used to be labeled as a form of insanity leads me to think they don’t really know what’s going on either.

            Saying that I’m being indecent , inhumane or disrespectful is an appeal to my emotions since most good people do not not want to be any of those things, hence emotional manipulation/blackmail.

            A woman is not a man missing a penis.
            Referring to a man who is still mostly physically a male as a woman is just inaccurate.

            Looking at it scientifically, gender identity, as opposed to biological reality, is not something that can be detected.
            It is a state of mind only.

          • Kick Frenzy June 8th, 2015 at 7:12 pm

            Using terms like “disrepectful” or “indecent” isn’t meant to appeal to any emotions.
            It’s just facts.
            The way you are treating the transgender topic, and the way you refer to people who are going through all of it, IS disrespectful and indecent.
            It’s not an emotional ploy, it’s just reality.

            You are invalidating them.
            That is rude, disrespectful and indecent.
            For all I know that doesn’t tickle a single moral or emotional bone in your body, but you keep going on about logic and that’s what I’m using.

            You are basing your refusal to show basic respect to a fellow human being on your incomplete knowledge of the topic.
            If you were in charge of labeling buttons on a weapons console, I wouldn’t trust your “world view” on how things should be labeled if you only read the contents page of the manual.
            Bad example, but you get my point.

            And gender identity DOES have biological realities as well as psychological.
            So your whole world view is flawed right from the starting gate.

          • richardstarr June 8th, 2015 at 7:35 pm

            And again you try to assign definitions to words that are not in common use so that it will fit your world view. smh.
            Your beliefs do not equal reality.

            And yes, that’s a terrible example since the button pushed,
            if functional, have specific results.

            And while I’m willing to belief there is a biological element to
            gender confusion, there is no test that can be administered to
            the blood to indicate what that persons beliefs about their gender

          • Kick Frenzy June 9th, 2015 at 12:17 am

            I’m not trying to fit definitions to words not in common use, I’m using common definitions for something you think doesn’t belong within those terms.
            Your beliefs do not equal reality, my beliefs are based on them.

            And if the wrong “button” is pushed for a transgender (or any LGBTQ) person, it can be just as disastrous for them as a misfired missile.
            Tortured existence, rejection, cruelty and in some cases death… these are what happen when you don’t think decency should be afforded to those you don’t understand.
            That is what happens daily to those in that community.

            Currently, you stand on the side of people who would do harm.
            That’s the point.
            You are being harmful.
            That’s not hyperbole or emotional blackmail, it’s a cold, hard truth.

            So now you get to stop, not respond to me, and think… do you want to associate with a sphere of abuse or would you rather associate with a sphere of kindness?

          • richardstarr June 9th, 2015 at 1:14 am

            No, you are indeed attempting to redefine the language.
            You continue to say your world view is superior to mine and
            that I must adopt it or be cruel, responsible for suicides, etc.
            Your attempt to force me into your world view are as idiotic
            as the gay conversion types that try to change those people.
            I do not accept your mantle of responsibility despite your
            attempts to foist it upon me. Your manipulative jargon might
            work on some college kid, but not on an adult who has encountered such techniques before.

          • Kick Frenzy June 9th, 2015 at 1:30 am

            See, right from the beginning you’re off-base.
            You refer to my posts as a “world view”, as if we are equal in how we perceive this topic.
            And that’s the problem… I’m not using a “world view”, I’m using reality… while you’re using your personal opinion based on an incomplete understanding of biology.
            (Right? Didn’t you already say it’s not religious and all you’re doing is referring to biology?)

            I’m also not saying you’re responsible for suicides or homicides, but I am saying that your “world view” has commonality with those who do degrade LGBTQ peoples to the point where some lose all hope and just decide to end the degradation and pain.

            And sorry(not sorry), but you ARE responsible for the words and opinions you utter, as well as the way you treat others.

          • Laura Clark June 15th, 2015 at 4:27 am

            A person’s sex, in fact, is based on biology, which sex they were born as. That is not being intolerable, that is just seeing and understanding facts and not allowing emotion to rule over reason. Why is that so hard for people to accept? People need to stop trying to make everything OK in this world. That is not life. That is shallow and wrong to dissuade people from having morals and/or common sense. We need boundaries in life. We cannot just chop off body parts because we don’t “feel” that it is a part of us. That is complete nonsense. Also, what would have been way more courageous of “Bruce” and a lot more helpful to young people, was him doing the right thing, demonstrating morals.

          • Kick Frenzy June 15th, 2015 at 4:35 pm

            You’re missing the part where biology backs up people feeling like the opposite sex than they were outwardly born as.
            Biologically speaking, people can be born with one sex on the outside, yet biologically attuned to the opposite sex on the inside.
            Why is that so hard for you to accept??

            And no, it’s not courageous to deny who you are just to please the rules of a religious group.
            The morals you’re talking about are based on religion, but the thing is we live in the USA… where we have freedom of (and from) religion.

            Being homosexual or transgender are not choices, they are how people are born.
            However, being Christian is a choice.
            So are the verses people choose to believe and the ones they choose not to follow.
            Another choice is whether to be ignorant of actual biology or not.

          • Laura Clark June 15th, 2015 at 4:15 am


          • tracey marie June 7th, 2015 at 11:21 pm

            She is a woman, period.

  12. madashellnow June 5th, 2015 at 4:05 pm

    Who cares about any of this? Aren’t there more important things to discuss?

    • Kick Frenzy June 5th, 2015 at 9:20 pm

      A lot of people care about this.
      Maybe not specifically Caitlyn, but the topic in general.. of which Caitlyn is a part and as a globally known figure, can positively influence the issues.

      You may not care, but those who are victims of murder because they’re transgender probably do.
      Those who are trying to understand themselves, while dealing with people who berate them as inhuman and worthy of derision and violence, care.
      I care.

      Also, there can be more than one important thing to discuss.
      Infrastructure is extremely important, so is health care, so are wars in the middle east… so are the lives of humans who are simply trying to live their life.

  13. burqa June 5th, 2015 at 8:52 pm

    I have never cared for cruelty and that’s what’s being dished here ….

  14. majii June 5th, 2015 at 9:05 pm

    They’re under siege, alright, under siege in the fake Fox-created right-wing bubble they inhabit, a bubble that has convinced them that they’re the only “reel” Americans.

  15. burqa June 5th, 2015 at 9:12 pm

    Be assured they will find ways to stir up fear.
    Younger folks here wouldn’t remember, but in the mid-70s there was a guy who went to Sweden and got a sex change operation and became Renee Richards.
    Conservatives had the same reaction as they are having now, and they got even more upset because Richards was a professional tennis player and move on to play on the women’s circuit.
    Conservatives were horrified and predicted everything from the whole country switching sex to massive earthquakes preceding Armageddon…..

    • whatthe46 June 5th, 2015 at 9:45 pm

      if i’m not mistaken, there was also a guy who had a sex change that played on the womens golf circuit right? i’m too lazy to look it up.

      • fredoandme June 5th, 2015 at 10:55 pm


      • Kick Frenzy June 5th, 2015 at 11:17 pm


      • burqa June 6th, 2015 at 3:05 am

        That sounds familiar, I see KickFrenzy has got a link to the story, below.

        I just vaguely recall that one, because I didn’t pay much attention.
        But I remember Renee Richards back in the day and all the controversy over a former man playing women’s tennis.
        Remember the David Suskind show?
        He used to have all sorts of people on and it was quite a trip….

        • whatthe46 June 6th, 2015 at 4:11 am

          don’t remember that, but i do remember with good clearity that it was a guy that transed and was a golfer. people were upset because he would naturally have a stronger swing than the girls.

        • whatthe46 June 7th, 2015 at 10:24 pm

          i looked it up. her name is bobbi lancaster.

    • fredoandme June 5th, 2015 at 10:50 pm

      before that, in 1952, was christine jorgensen who was once george.

      • burqa June 6th, 2015 at 3:08 am

        Good pull. I was trying to pull that one, but could only recall it was a Scandinavian. I think Jorgensen was the first sex change operation.

        • fredoandme June 6th, 2015 at 9:08 am

          thanks. it’s a small, but relatively important advantage of being, um, old, older, okay, elderly.
          jorgensen wasn’t the first, just the first american one we read about in the headlines. surgeons in europe had been working with this since the ’30’s.

  16. AnthonyLook June 6th, 2015 at 12:34 am

    The most hilarious part of the “Republican stance against”—- is that they have all taken an oath to from here on to the future; they will refer to her only as Bruce Jenner and never use the name Caitlyn. Let’s see who messes up first.

    • whatthe46 June 6th, 2015 at 12:52 am

      one of them said, they should only refer to her as “jenner” because they will never accept her. and no one should accept that change from anyone, never use her, now chosen “female” name, only her last. paraphrasing, but on point.

      • AnthonyLook June 6th, 2015 at 12:54 am

        You can tell by their tortured phrasing of their stand on the issue; it will be fun to see who breaks the rule first.

  17. liberalMD June 6th, 2015 at 2:56 pm

    Why is anyone surprised? The Republican Party has been the “Against Party” for the past 36 years…..against meaningful immigration policy, against gay marriage, against abortion, against the Affordable Care Act, against a diplomatic solution to the escalation of nuclear actibity in Iran, against greater access to voter registration and elections, against continuation of subsidies to the poor and needy, against any restriction on guns……….,

  18. William June 6th, 2015 at 3:29 pm

    Thanks Obama

  19. Mainah June 8th, 2015 at 7:53 am

    It’s not like LGBT community just cropped up all of a sudden. They are fellow Americans, fellow human beings that did not ask for other people’s issues into their personal lives, which they really have no place to be anyways, to make them feel less than human. These people need to take that plank out of their eye.

    No one says you have to agree with everyone, but it doesn’t give you the right to persecute them just because you disagree. You know the old saying “If you don’t have anything nice to say ….” is old for a reason. It’s pretty apparent that you can’t find room in your heart for empathy for what it must feel like to know inside the true you and have to lie to fit in. We just take for granted that we are who we are because our insides match our outsides. How hard is that to consider? Imagine the pain of having to go through your life as a lie? Less than? Miserable? Lonely? Just imagine feeling like that for your entire life.

    • Laura Clark June 15th, 2015 at 4:06 am

      God doesn’t make mistakes. The problem is everyone thinks BC they “feel” a certain way, then it must be. The fact is, who you are, is in fact, who you were born as. That is a fact and not a very hard one to understand.

      • Mainah June 15th, 2015 at 7:59 am

        Um, I don’t even know where to begin with this. First, God never said he made things perfectly. Nor did he say that all trials and tribulations are from Him. God also said it wasn’t your right to judge, nor to treat another badly. As for this sentence “The fact is, who you are, is in fact, who you were born as.” is really childish in its reasoning on many different levels, but let’s just stick with the sexual organs part with who someone identifies as. Look, I’m not trying to be mean, but let’s just throw an actual example on how mistakes are indeed made and in no way is that God’s doing, it just is because chromosomes make mistakes, cells make mistakes, because stuff happens:

        It is a long read, but well worth it.:

        That is a fact and it’s called science which means it’s been proven. That’s what makes it a fact. I believe in God and that’s called faith. You don’t get to tell me how to believe, or how to worship, or how to discern. That isn’t hard to understand either.

    • burqa June 15th, 2015 at 10:50 pm

      Well said. If people tried to be more nice the world would be a better place.

  20. Warman1138 June 15th, 2015 at 5:44 am

    Wow, one hundred and sixty three comments and counting, Wow!