Franklin Graham: I Love Gays So Much I Want To Prevent Them From An Eternity In Hell
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(AP Photo/Peter Morgan)
Please don’t think that Franklin Graham is anti-gay. He loves the gays. It’s just that he wants them to repent so they don’t spend eternity burning in hell. As Sean Illing writes at Salon:
In a recent interview about his decision to move his ministry banks accounts (which reportedly total over $100 million) from Wells Fargo, Graham remarked: “I hear so many arguments that we need to love the gays and lesbians. Of course we love them. And we should love them enough to warn them that if they don’t repent and turn from their sin and receive Christ, they will spend eternity in hell.”
Here we have the moral confusion at the heart of the evangelical movement perfectly expressed. Graham, like so many of his ilk, insists that he’s not full of hate, that he actually loves gay people. That’s bullshit. It’s obscene to say you love someone right before condemning him or her to an eternity of hell. This is the move too many Christians try to make in moral discourse today: They say it’s God’s business to judge, but they condemn; they say they hate sin but love the sinner, but they embrace laws that demean and punish those who don’t share their values; Graham’s virulent anti-gay rhetoric is a particularly disgusting example of this.
It’s no accident that Graham uses words like “lifestyle” and “choice” when denouncing homosexuals. He wants you to think he’s attacking gay people for what they do rather than for who they are, but that’s a ruse, because that’s exactly what he’s doing. Dismissing homosexuality as a choice makes it easier to judge and discriminate against, and it ignores the simple truth that gay people no more chose to be gay than I choose to be right-handed. But Graham doesn’t want to deal with this truth, because it runs counter to his religious ideology.
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Larry Schmitt June 15th, 2015 at 11:11 am
Who are you to say who will be spending an eternity in hell? Didn’t Jesus say “Judge not lest ye be judged?” Why are so many “Christians” so un-Christian?
thule June 15th, 2015 at 12:05 pm
It is interesting how often non-Christian judge how Christians should live their lives.
The full quote of the section of script does not say that a person should never point out someone else’s sin. Read the full context of that section. It says to evaluate one’s own sin first and then come to the other person in humility knowing that both are sinners (the spec of wood in the other’s eye):
7 “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.
6 “Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.
Larry Schmitt June 15th, 2015 at 12:27 pm
So what he is saying is that, since no human being is perfect, he has no right to judge anyone else. That job should be left to god. And I don’t know what verse 6 has to do with this.
Larry Schmitt June 15th, 2015 at 12:45 pm
“It is interesting how often non-Christian judge how Christians should live their lives.” How am I doing that? That is exactly what Graham is trying to do. And how do you know if I’m non-Christian?
Dwendt44 June 15th, 2015 at 1:29 pm
So if you believe you are perfect THEN you can judge? Graham’s arrogance and self righteousness sounds like a sin in and of itself.
Elliot J. Stamler June 15th, 2015 at 2:37 pm
He loves gays as much as Hitler loved Jews. Who does he think he’s kidding? (Answer: the evangelical fundamentalist morons like him.)
fahvel June 15th, 2015 at 1:38 pm
sounds like king jame’s version of an old greek text – he used it well and then foisted it on the stupid.
Bunya June 15th, 2015 at 1:59 pm
Don’t you have that backwards? It should say “it is interesting how often Christians judge how non-Christians should live their lives. It looks to me like Graham is judging gay people, not the other way around.
tracey marie June 15th, 2015 at 2:10 pm
who cares, we are not a theocratic country.
Elliot J. Stamler June 15th, 2015 at 2:35 pm
Vote for any probable Republican presidential nominee and we will become one.
tracey marie June 15th, 2015 at 2:40 pm
I would not vote for anyone in that clown car full of rwnj’s.
Foundryman June 15th, 2015 at 12:32 pm
What commandment is it that says Thou shall always mind the personal business of others?
illinoisboy1977 June 15th, 2015 at 1:06 pm
I don’t think he’s personally condemning anyone to hell. He’s simply warning them that, according to his faith, their activity will lead them to be condemned to hell. Also, the bible teaches that to give in to one’s nature, if doing so is against the commandments of God, is a sin. While being gay is not a choice, having sex is and that is where he sees the sin. While I don’t agree with Graham’s beliefs on this matter, I DO take him as being genuinely concerned for people’s souls. He was raised in the evangelical faith and they perceive God to be a loving, but terribly strict Father. Therefore, Graham is going to do everything in his power to fight against the acceptability of being openly gay, in the hope that he may “save someone from eternal damnation”. To do any less would, in his eyes, make him derelict in his service to God.
StoneyCurtisll June 15th, 2015 at 1:34 pm
I like to keep it simple and to the point…
Franklin Graham is a liar and a charlatan..(nothing more)
fahvel June 15th, 2015 at 1:36 pm
the evangelical crowd are a collective of terrified mealy mouthed people with no spine, no self respect and certainly no respect for people beyond their meager little cabal.
StoneyCurtisll June 15th, 2015 at 1:38 pm
And they always what money for their “god”..
Bunya June 15th, 2015 at 1:56 pm
Franklin Graham is in it for the money, period. And if almost 60% of the population is for gay marriage, he’ll say anything to keep the 60% happy while at the same time trying not to look like the charlatan we all know he is.
tracey marie June 15th, 2015 at 2:09 pm
Nonsense, he is shilling for dollars by attacking people that he has taught his flock to hate.
Chris June 17th, 2015 at 7:12 pm
Yeah, and some other deluded souls believe that they hear voices, that they must act on those voices, and thus some must die.
They are true to themselves. And absolutely barking mad. I have no respect for Franklin Graham. His is a ministry of hate, not only towards gays but also all of Islam.
You may think it’s a great thing that he tries to “save someone from eternal damnation” by doing what he does. I think he’s a blight on Christianity.
fahvel June 15th, 2015 at 1:34 pm
when is this sick thing going to do a Dunderbeck and check the insides of his wood chipper?
allison1050 June 15th, 2015 at 1:54 pm
I don’t remember but was his father as stupid as this?
tracey marie June 15th, 2015 at 2:08 pm
who do you think taught him all this hate and ignorance.
Dwendt44 June 17th, 2015 at 1:44 pm
I would guess NO. The father was less judgmental and less threatening. But then again Junior will never be regarded as highly (or even close) as the father. He will exist in the old mans shadow for the rest of his life. The daughter isn’t even that close to being respected. They both drag down the empire his father built and the reputation his father earned.
allison1050 June 17th, 2015 at 2:53 pm
Thanks for your response because I didn’t think I remembered the father saying stupid stuff constantly like his idiot son.
rhzszm June 15th, 2015 at 2:09 pm
How people answer this question reveals whether they are Christian or not: is homosexuality sin? Because if it is, I see no reason to encourage it or reward it.
Now if people say, “well, I’m atheist” or “it’s not a sin by me”, that’s not religion. We have freedom of religion in America, not freedom of non-religion or freedom of religion “by you”.
tracey marie June 15th, 2015 at 2:11 pm
We have equality in this country and seperation of church and state.
rhzszm June 15th, 2015 at 2:30 pm
Do you know what “well-regulated” and “without infringement” mean in the 2nd amendment?
I don’t think you understand what separation of church and state mean.
tracey marie June 15th, 2015 at 2:33 pm
no government recognized religion…no laws based on your book of myths, go back to politico.
rhzszm June 15th, 2015 at 3:08 pm
“no government recognized religion”
That’s what it means.
“no laws based on your book of myths”
That’s not what it means.
Dwendt44 June 15th, 2015 at 6:30 pm
But it does. There’s no logical reason the base any law on the bible. Any law should have reasonable and logical basis. The bible doesn’t have a lock on morality or ethics, and case can be made it’s not even close. The right wing nut jobs think that because we have 10 Amendments in the Bill of RIghts, and the bible has 10 Commandments, the one is based on the other. Bull pucky. The bible and the Constitution contradict each other on most every point.
bpollen June 15th, 2015 at 3:47 pm
“well-regulated” refers to militias, and “without infringement” isn’t in the 2nd Amendment – neither word is…
rhzszm June 15th, 2015 at 4:11 pm
Of course you’re right, the last clause is “shall not be infringed”.
What does “well-regulated” mean in reference to militias?
bpollen June 15th, 2015 at 4:33 pm
I know! You tell me! What IS a well-regulated militia and do you belong to one? What does “well” mean in reference to “regulated?” And is the article “A” meant to mean just one specific one or any “well-regulated militia?” Why were the commas placed where they were placed?
Larry Schmitt June 15th, 2015 at 4:35 pm
Exactly. The constitution is open to interpretation, which is what the courts have done from the beginning. Gun ownership is not an absolute right, any more than free speech is, in spite of what the NRA would have us believe.
Larry Schmitt June 15th, 2015 at 2:20 pm
We have freedom of non-religion or whatever you choose to believe or not believe. And there are plenty of Christians who do not think homosexuality is a sin, including the many gay people who are active members of churches. And there are probably some atheists who think homosexuality is wrong. So your little black/white choice isn’t quite as simple as you think it is.
rhzszm June 15th, 2015 at 2:27 pm
Does the Bible say Homosexuality is a sin? Which Bible doesn’t?
What is the role of homosexuals in the church? Are they seeking God to help them with salvation or are they promoting sin within a church-going community?
tracey marie June 15th, 2015 at 2:32 pm
priests and the evangelicals are promoting pedophilia.
Larry Schmitt June 15th, 2015 at 2:42 pm
Lots of people who consider themselves Christians don’t take everything in the bible as gospel (so to speak). They accept what seems right to them. And I didn’t say anything about the bible. I was talking about what people believe.
rhzszm June 15th, 2015 at 3:17 pm
How can you be a Christian if you don’t believe in the Good Works of the Bible?
That doesn’t sound Christian to me. You can have your own religion… satanism, Paganism, Communism, Sodomism… but don’t wrap it up with “Christianity” in an attempt to legitimize it.
tracey marie June 15th, 2015 at 3:29 pm
there is nothing legitimate about fairy tales and myths, the bible is as true as grimms fairy tales.
bpollen June 15th, 2015 at 3:43 pm
I would say that the Brothers Grimm were at least honest enough to ADMIT that they wrote fairy tales… nor do they have multiple conflicting retellings of the same stories…
Larry Schmitt June 15th, 2015 at 3:40 pm
Do you stone prostitutes? Do you refrain from wearing mixed fibers? The only place that mentions homosexuality being a sin is the old testament, and those two things are there too. If you don’t follow every bit of the old testament, you’re doing exactly what I described, accepting what seems right to you.
rhzszm June 15th, 2015 at 4:08 pm
Of course not, I avoid them. I don’t mix wool and linen, they are incompatible.
The New Testament references to homosexuality are not just as a personal sin (1 Corinthians 6:9) but as sexual immorality that perverts and threatens all of society: Romans 1, 1 Timothy 1:9–10.
Tell me, which sect of Christianity does not recognize the Old Testament?
Larry Schmitt June 15th, 2015 at 4:33 pm
All those letters of Paul and others are merely their opinion. Do you wear clothes with polyester and cotton, or wool and cotton, or linen and cotton? Mixed fibers. And where did I say any sect of christianity does not recognize the old testament? Leviticus says: “‘If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife–with the wife of his neighbor–both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.” If you follow the entire bible, as you claim, why aren’t you out there putting adulterers to death?
rhzszm June 15th, 2015 at 5:13 pm
I don’t think so. Polyester and cotton is low quality. Wool and cotton makes absolutely no sense (unless you are violating consumer protection laws). Linen and cotton, perhaps I had a pair of shorts from my much younger years – they were cheap, from GAP, and always problematic taken out of the washer/dryer. Definitely a lesson in keeping to the Lord’s Word.
I have parted ways with adulterers, even when I was not in the victimhood triangle. Do you suppose it is sufficient “death”, when it becomes the death of our friendship?
Chris June 15th, 2015 at 7:39 pm
In the immortal words of Reagan, “There you go again!”
You are trying to wiggle out of the unambiguous penalties called for in Leviticus by using a metaphorical sense. And you are refusing to tell Larry Schmitt whether you agree with the penalties that are called for re adultery.
Nice fail.
rhzszm June 15th, 2015 at 9:17 pm
Chris, if the choice is between stoning homosexuals and marrying them, I’d prefer to see them stoned.
But, yeah, you won’t see me throwing rocks at them because that’s just not how I operate. And maybe that’s the problem – the fact that I’m not standing up for what’s right – and why America, the dream, and the family unit are all going to Hell.
Chris June 15th, 2015 at 9:33 pm
You continue to bob and weave, not answering the questions. I suspect it’s because you are basically insecure about following Leviticus to the letter.
Someone else asked about your eating shellfish like lobster and shrimp. You do realize this is an abomination, right? If you prefer to stone gays rather than allowing them to be married, surely you can justify invading a Red Lobster some Sunday and laying waste to all of the people guilty of apostasy, right? Right?
Hypocrite, thy name is rhzszm. Until you study the Holiness Code and not merely thump it, you won’t get anywhere close to understanding. I suggest talking to a Reform or Conservative Jewish rabbi to get their take on this; you will be surprised.
And, yes, we did see where you failed to answer about offing adulterers. I don’t expect a serious reply because you have dodged every single one of these posts.
rhzszm June 15th, 2015 at 10:34 pm
I do not eat shellfish or shrimp. They are disgusting to me. I happened to make the decision not to eat them for preference and health reasons, not religious reasons but the religious reasons are good enough for me. I don’t know if it is abomination, the prohibition to eating shellfish does not mention it at all. The text is, “Anything living in the water that does not have fins and scales is to be regarded as unclean by you” or “Everything in the waters that does not have fins and scales is detestable to you.” This is another common sense prohibition. Did you know that the largest population of blowfish, which is deadly poisonous unless prepared properly, if in the Mediterranean off the coast of Israel? Nobody following Levitical Law in Israel ever died of eating blowfish they fished out of the sea.
It’s the same with mixed fibers. A mixing of linen and wool, specifically, defies common sense. The properties of those fibers are completely incompatible. Wool does not wrinkle, does not smell, does not wash well in water or need to be washed in water. Linen wrinkles, it keeps odors, and it washes well in water. If you make a pair of pants of out wool and linen you negate all the good properties of wool with all the bad properties of linen, and after you wash it several times the pants will look unpresentable.
I don’t believe reform and conservative Jews see eye to eye on much, just as there are many “Christians” who would try to lead one to believe Jesus was a cross-dressing, communist homosexual. If you are trying to say conservative Judaism provides for homosexuality, you couldn’t be more wrong. But thankfully we do live in a mostly civil, kindhearted and generous society among each other as individuals, minding our own business. As for reformists, well, when have reformists ever reformed morality for the better?
Do we need to literally off homosexuals and adulterers so that people don’t commit these sins? That truly is disappointing, but that’s how ISIS does it so I suppose it’s the only way to convince some people.
Nobody follows the law to the letter. It is simply impossible in the course of human existence (have you ever told a white lie?), but does that mean society should openly infringe upon the Laws of Moses?
Chris June 15th, 2015 at 11:01 pm
Your ignorance unfortunately is on full display, especially regarding Reform and Conservative Judaism. They are movements within Judaism. Thus, your comment about “reformists” is ridiculous in the extreme.
You still continue to avoid the larger question of “literally” killing violators of the Law. Whether you wish to acknowledge it or not, capital punishment was what was practiced at the time for those violations.
My greater point is this: You use Leviticus to justify your hatred of gays. You blithely discount what Leviticus says about everything else, as something ISIS does.
The underpinnings for your logic are gone.
All you have left is your hate.
tracey marie June 15th, 2015 at 7:45 pm
you are just trolling
burqa June 16th, 2015 at 12:48 am
rhzszm: Tell me, which sect of Christianity does not recognize the Old Testament?
The first century church whose rise and expansion are described in Acts.
Those who remained zealous of the Law and confined their activities to Jews and who stayed in Palestine were left behind and were not deemed worth talking about much, whereas those who followed the new way under the Apostle Paul flourished and their deeds and correct interpretation of the Christian doctrine was praised. They had a whole ‘nother deal, the Law being finished and the new doctrine being in effect. New doctrine came, addressed to not just the Jews, but to the Gentiles as well and it was understood that there were no longer Judeans, gentiles, bond or free, but all were one with Christ and that includes gays because one’s sexuality has nothing to do with getting born again. A gay person can be born again and thus is sanctified, justified and made righteous and holy in love before God. Saying anything less about them is idolatry on the same order as that committed by Lucifer.
Dwendt44 June 15th, 2015 at 6:34 pm
And of course you don’t eat lobster or shrimp. Decline the Easter ham, or bacon for breakfast. Your women aren’t allowed to wear jewelry or get their hair done up. And they don’t dare speak up in church.
Not that jesus came for the so called ‘christians’, he didn’t. He didn’t come to save the gentile, the heathens, the Romans or the rest of humanity. Only came for the Jews.
rhzszm June 15th, 2015 at 9:07 pm
Why would I eat sea cockroaches and feces-eating bottom dwellers? Would you eat a vulture? I avoid ham, and bacon is disgusting.
Women shouldn’t speak up at all, when they do society collapses. Their interpretation of reason is incompatible with the ways of the world and causes man to fall from the Garden of Eden, repeatedly over and over.
Of course Jesus didn’t come for the Romans, he didn’t come for the Pagans, he didn’t come for the heathens, the Egyptians or for the Sodomites. Some people can’t be saved. What Christians? There were no Christians before the resurrection.
Jesus only came to save the followers of the One True God, His Laws and Prophets… those written in the Old Testament. Matthew 5:17-20.
In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus talks about adultery. But when he talks about adultery, he doesn’t say it’s just about sex. Matthew 5:28. When he talks about the dissolution of marriage, he calls it adultery. He talks about murder, but he doesn’t say murder is just about killing people. Matthew 5:22. Jesus’s standard is more strict, not less strict than the absolute orders laid out by God in the Old Testament. And what did Jesus say to the prostitute he saved from stoning? Go forth and sin no more. John 8:11.
burqa June 16th, 2015 at 12:38 am
So you’re a Jew?
After all, you’re talking about following the Law given to the Jews as their doctrine, whereas in the parts of the Bible specifically laying down the doctrine to Christians, it says “Christ is the end of the Law to all who believe.” Further, it says in Corinthians that we are free of all those dietary laws, but if someone wants to be a vegetarian or something, don’t hassle them. It appears you are intent on breaking this command given to Christians.
When you get to be old enough to marry, do so, and have it end in divorce as so many do, your opinion on what the Bible has to say on the subject will change.
.
But first you gotta get through junior high….
bpollen June 16th, 2015 at 4:59 am
Women shouldn’t speak up at all, when they do society collapses
Please cite your evidence that ANY society has collapsed SOLELY as a result of women speaking. Failure to do so shows you are just telling lies, and THAT is proscribed in the bible too.Coincidentally, it’s proscribed in Leviticus.
You just look like a sanctimonious hypocrite who picks and chooses what to accept or rationalize away and denies doing so (bearing false witness… naughty naughty!)
Larry Schmitt June 16th, 2015 at 7:20 am
Okay, you lost any shred of credibility you might have had (might!) with that crap about “Women shouldn’t speak up at all.” Based on what you’ve been saying, any woman has more to say that’s worth listening to than you ever will. And the garden of Eden? Really? You don’t get that’s just one of thousands of creation myths? Every society has them some a lot more interesting than yours.
Dwendt44 June 18th, 2015 at 12:40 am
Bacon is disgusting? Well in that case you don’t deserve to be considered human. BACON rules!!!!
Kick Frenzy June 15th, 2015 at 2:45 pm
Yes, it says homosexuality is a sin.
It also says the church leaders should stone children to death if they get drunk and mouth off to their parents, but I don’t see any Christians following that law.
With homosexuality, God is suppose to be the judge and jury.
With drunken disrespect, humans are told to dole out the execution.
rhzszm June 15th, 2015 at 3:15 pm
I don’t think we’re supposed to actually stone them to death, that would be like ISIS.
I think the purpose of the description of the stoning is that it underscores that communities should be united in condemning sin, sharing the responsibility of teaching the youngsters to walk away from sin.
tracey marie June 15th, 2015 at 3:28 pm
what the fk is wrong with you, bored trolling at politico and other bagger sites?
Larry Schmitt June 15th, 2015 at 4:36 pm
What did the idiot say? I missed it.
Suzanne McFly June 15th, 2015 at 4:36 pm
Me too 🙁
Kick Frenzy June 15th, 2015 at 5:19 pm
So, when the Bible says something you don’t like, it’s cool to come up with some new interpretation to excuse you from doing what’s written word for word.
But when it says something you like, then the interpretation can be happily extrapolated into judging others not just in thought or words, but also in actions.
According to your philosophy, the one that allows you to interpret precise directions to stone a drunken child to death are really just guidelines on teaching youngsters not to sin, it would follow that a warning that God will judge homosexuals after they die means that it’s not any business of Christians as to what other people are doing and have no ground to stand on when it comes to denying equal rights?
Larry Schmitt June 15th, 2015 at 5:20 pm
Bingo!
rhzszm June 15th, 2015 at 5:59 pm
What do you mean, “equal rights”?
If you’re not satisfied that I don’t stone homosexuals, set them on fire, or hang them from cranes you think I should support them in getting married?
That’s a bit extremist don’t you think?
And, sure, God does Judge homosexuals after they die. But here on earth we’re supposed to vomit them out of society. Have you you actually read Leviticus 18? “Everyone who does any of these detestable things—such persons must be cut off from their people.”
Larry Schmitt June 15th, 2015 at 6:10 pm
This whole question of whether it’s a sin is all about choice. If you believe in sin, people do it by choice. If homosexuality is a sin, that means they made a choice. So if they made a choice to be homosexual, tell me when you made the choice to be heterosexual. If it’s not a choice, that means two things. One, it’s not a sin. And two, god made them that way, and according to your view of them, god made a mistake. Oops. There goes your all powerful god, making mistakes. You can’t have it both ways.
rhzszm June 15th, 2015 at 6:30 pm
Yes, you have a choice to sin or not.
Maybe God made all people sexual perverts and that’s why He created laws governing what kind of sexual behavior is unacceptable and enumerated it in Leviticus 18. Have you read it?
Larry Schmitt June 15th, 2015 at 6:30 pm
No, I haven’t read a fairy tale since I was about six.
rhzszm June 15th, 2015 at 9:37 pm
Larry, since you don’t believe in the Good Book, I’d like to ask you what other moral values from The Bible you’d like to delegitimize or decriminalize. The prohibitions on murder, theft and lying? How about sex with animals or between blood relatives? I might be born “predisposed” to smoking dope, drinking beer and farting all day long but that doesn’t mean I do it. Should we eliminate the moral commandments on paying your workers, or Deuteronomy 25:15 so your dealer can short change you on an eighth?
Larry Schmitt June 16th, 2015 at 7:22 am
A person doesn’t have to be religious to be moral. The religion I grew up with literally tried to put “the fear of god” in me. Fear is not a very effective motivator. It’s much better to do the right thing simply because it’s the right thing to do, and not to pleas some invisible boss who will reward you in the great by-and-by.
rhzszm June 16th, 2015 at 4:58 pm
I agree there is no reason to put the fear of God in anyone. Most people experience it on their own, through the loss of a loved one, through losing control of their lives, through losing their health.
You don’t know morals, Larry Schmitt. They don’t come from your intellectualism or experience, or from mine. The don’t come from the laws written by the government. They come from God and God alone and they were delivered to us via the Old Testament and later its carrier, Jesus Christ. There have been more people who thought like you than otherwise, yet your rules are forgotten, temporary, and live only temporarily with the sinner and the worser society he leaves behind for standing against God.
I am awed how desperate and depraved the Democrat party must be to support acceptance of immorality to satisfy their lust for money and power by selling out their own souls and the moral standing of our country for votes from people who are seeking legitimacy they will never have because it did not come from The Creator. They are turning civilization and interpersonal relationships colder by accepting sinful behavior. There is no reason to participate or contribute to such a society.
Larry Schmitt June 16th, 2015 at 5:05 pm
You’re completely wrong about morals. There are lots of non-religious people who are moral. And god didn’t create man, it was the other way around. Man created god in his own image. That’s why there are so many of them, and everyone is convinced theirs is the only true one.
rhzszm June 16th, 2015 at 5:46 pm
If you read the Bible, Larry, you won’t need to create God or morals. One God, one set of morals and accepted standards of civil practice. It would be heaven on earth.
Dwendt44 June 17th, 2015 at 1:34 pm
No, it would be hell on earth. That’s why the founding fathers rejected religion as a basis for this country. Common sense (you should try it some time) and reason and logic are much better at establishing a moral standard for society. And BTW society establishes morality. Not some imaginary deity. You’ll note that over 90% of prison inmates are ‘christians’ while less that 1% are Atheists. So who is the more moral?
rhzszm June 17th, 2015 at 2:48 pm
Societies that establish their “own” morality, contrary to the Laws of God, are doomed.
Dwendt44 June 17th, 2015 at 3:01 pm
nonsense. We don’t have slaves anymore because we thought better of ‘others’ than the ‘laws of a god’. We don’t allow child abuse because we thought better of children than the ‘laws of a god’. We don’t allow rape marriage because we thought better than the ‘laws of a god’. We don’t permit polygamy because we thought better than the ‘laws of a god’. We don’t allow killing others we don’t agree with because we thought better than the ‘laws of a god’.
rhzszm June 17th, 2015 at 3:49 pm
Laws of God promote slavery? Laws of God promote polygamy? Laws of God promote child abuse? You’re sick in the head. I suppose next you’ll tell me Jesus Christ was a cross-dressing homosexual communist, too.
Child abuse was performed by whoever taught you the nonsense you spout. You need to read the Bible rather than spout a bunch of nonsense liberal democrats from Sodomite seminaries told you about it.
Dwendt44 June 18th, 2015 at 12:39 am
I have read the bible. ALL OF IT, twice in fact. That’s just one reason why I reject the nonsense therein. The bible does support polygamy, it does support slavery, it does support child abuse, it does advocate rape marriage, it does suggest killing those that disagree with you. That you ignore those chapters and verses are the reason you sound like an idiot. Many of the 3000 gods man has created have similar rules and ‘laws’ that don’t make sense. 3-4000 years ago, some, but only a few, of the rules made sense. Times have changed and the reason for those rules no longer apply or exist. So it prudent to ignore them by those that are smart enough to see past the B.S..
burqa June 16th, 2015 at 12:31 am
Previously you asked someone if they had read the Bible. You clearly have not because you are unaware as to how those laws in Leviticus came about.
Had you actually bothered to read the texts you comment on, you would know God didn’t want to do it but the people insisted on having a bunch of complicated laws like people in other faiths around them.
You remind me of someone I once saw on TV back in ’75 during a tour by the Rolling Stones. I think this person was on the Today Show or Good Morning America.
Anyway, this person proceeded to review a concert by the Stones and said how bad it was and then uttered this gem:
“Of course I didn’t actually see the concert, but heard about it from people who were there.”
This is you and Leviticus – you haven’t actually read the Bible, but are relying on the opinions of others who have….
Chris June 17th, 2015 at 7:02 pm
It’s fruitless to debate rhzszm.
He bobs and weaves, never acknowledging your logic. I perceive him as a troll with the rare quality of being able to string words into a cogent sentence. Entertaining, but in the end, frustrating because he never addresses the issue at hand.
Good luck.
burqa June 16th, 2015 at 12:25 am
rhzszm: What do you mean, “equal rights”?
If you’re not satisfied that I don’t stone homosexuals, set them on fire, or hang them from cranes you think I should support them in getting married?
That’s a bit extremist don’t you think?
No, it would be you growing to the point you believed all Americans should have the same rights and we should not have a society where one’s sexuality determines what rights they have any more than their race determines whether they have rights others enjoy or whether we restrict rights because of someone’s faith, hair color or taste in music.
Read your history. Learn to understand the character of the American people and the course our nation has been on to become more equal in terms of rights.
There’s nothing to fear from eliminating inequality in our nation.
We got better when we eliminated slavery.
We got better when women got the vote.
We got better when we passed civil rights legislation.
We got better when the women’s liberation movement succeeded.
We will be better when gays have the same rights as everyone else.
Kick Frenzy June 17th, 2015 at 11:25 pm
YES! THIS! ^
Kick Frenzy June 17th, 2015 at 11:18 pm
I strongly suggest you don’t use Leviticus as your base of belief on this.
There are so many rules in there that you,personally, do not follow… that to use it to condemn anything else is ludicrous.
And it’s not that I want you to go out and hunt down homosexuals for sport, that’s an extremely twisted understanding of what I was saying.
It’s that, if you don’t believe in stoning kids to death for drunkenly mouthing off to their parents, or that mixing fabrics is a sin or eating shellfish or letting women talk in church or have their own opinion about what was said in church… then you have absolutely no footing to stand on when you attack or deny homosexuals.
What I’m saying is that to deny the LGBTQommunity equal rights based on the Bible doesn’t mean you’re a Christian.
It means you know how to cherry pick verses that let you hate certain people.
rhzszm June 17th, 2015 at 11:33 pm
You have no idea what rules I follow.
I absolutely believe kids should listen to their parents, communities should rally around parents in raising kids in a moral and upright way, mixing wool and linen is dumb, shellfish are gross and unhealthy, and women should keep their mouths shut about important issues and decisions because they’re irrational, emotional and stupid no matter how much we educate them.
Further, I believe women should be in the home, cooking and cleaning, pleasing their husband, barefoot and pregnant. Absolutely. They should be the emotional center of the family and raising the children so they don’t grow up to be rioters or homosexuals.
It’s not my fault feminism has taught you wrong, that you can’t keep a man because you can’t keep your big mouth shut, and you’re dependent on somebody whether it’s for love or a living. You’re probably a middle-aged pre-menopausal, overweight heifer. No man will give you a second look and now that your “career” has topped out, you’re wondering how you’re going to get old alone without a husband. So you’re going to look for another, short-haired, flannel-shirt and jeans wearing middle aged heifer, get “garried”, and scam social security payments. You’re trash.
Chris June 15th, 2015 at 7:34 pm
Uh, the instruction to stone was not given wiggle room.
You are correct in saying we today should not stone those who are in violation of these standards. You still need to understand why the Holiness Code came about.
Do you realize that one verse in the Hebrew Scripture is responsible for the Jews not mixing dairy with meat? Deuteronomy 14:21 says “Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk.” Do you as a Christian follow this?
You may or may not believe this: a lot of the proscriptions came about to make the Hebrews a people set apart, “holy.” Thus, the proscriptions about homosexuality. I, as a Christian, believe that we are set free from such proscriptions through Christ. I believe two loving gays should be allowed to marry. You evidently do not.
I hope you evolve on this.
Dwendt44 June 17th, 2015 at 1:26 pm
“Deuteronomy 14:21 says “Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk.””
IIRC, that verse is part of the third version of the Ten Commandments. None of which agree with each other.
Larry Schmitt June 15th, 2015 at 7:39 pm
Like every other christian, you pick and choose the parts of the bible that make “sense” to you. So it’s a bit hypocritical of you to call someone out because they don’t follow the parts you happen to like.
burqa June 15th, 2015 at 10:15 pm
The instruction to stone people to death is not in the part of the Bible addressed to Christians. Rather, it is found in the doctrine of the Jews.
But given the history of the last century and the gradual realization that having irrational hatred of Jews is a bad thing, society developed a revulsion to hating the Jews.
Many don’t feel there is such a societal standard regarding Christians, so they just redirect their hatred for Jews to the Christians, because they know there are plenty of others in the crowd on the political Left who think the same way.
We see a mirror image on the Right, where there is plenty of company in the crowd who will not get excited at hatred for Muslims.
Our country will be far better off and our society will evolve in a positive direction when we realize that bigotry is wrong regardless of the target and we on the Left have bigots among us who need to grow just as the Right has bigots among them who need to grow.
When we have evolved, people will look back and see how utterly ridiculous it was for the Left to have pet objects of hatred and the Right to have their own pet objects of hatred, while both sides simultaneously pointed fingers at the other, screaming “BIGOT!
Suzanne McFly June 15th, 2015 at 4:38 pm
This person does understand God did not write the Bible, right?
Kick Frenzy June 15th, 2015 at 5:21 pm
Most Christians know God didn’t write the Bible.
The case is that the Holy Spirit directed men on what to write, what to include and what not to include.
But if you’re going to argue points in the Bible, it’s better to show it in a light the other person understands.
Suzanne McFly June 15th, 2015 at 5:28 pm
You are doing a good job staying focused on the message. I have patience when teaching children, but when I am online on a site where I assume there are only adults commenting, I have zero patience. I mainly become upset when people have a very narrow view of the world and it seems this person has tunnel vision from the couple comments I have read.
burqa June 16th, 2015 at 12:18 am
Sounds like a kid to me, a very confused one, but a kid just the same.
And Ms. McFly, I don’t recall seeing you lose it when it comes to the kooks we occasionally run into. Quite the opposite, you remain nice and this is a quality in you I think is marvelous and I wish there were more people as nice as you.
Suzanne McFly June 16th, 2015 at 6:22 am
Thanks Burqa. I have seen some come on this site and try to stir up dirt, I just refuse to get into a conversation where reasonable discussion cannot occur. Trolls do not come here to discuss issues reasonably, they don’t care how valid your point is, just the fact that it does not fit into their myopic view they simply dismiss it and try to distract with some other created injustice.
Kick Frenzy June 17th, 2015 at 11:11 pm
Well, I used to be Christian… and Republican-ish.
So, I get what the view is like from the other side.
I also know that a straight attack instead of trying to reason with them in their lexicon is more likely to solidify their viewpoint.
But I get wanting to scrap with people who won’t be changed… it’s just, there’s room for change here, I think.
granpa.usthai June 15th, 2015 at 11:45 pm
why not just leave it to America’s Best (and hottest) Christian?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1pYoZh5P4w
Chris June 15th, 2015 at 7:23 pm
Do you believe we should follow EVERYTHING in the Levitical Holiness Code that you apparently are going to beat us over the head with?
Do you realize that a kid who mouths off should be stoned to death?
Do you think carnival mediums should be stoned to death?
Should we stone those who have businesses open on the Sabbath?
For that matter, should we stone Christians who do not keep the classic Sabbath (sunset Friday to sunset Saturday)?
There’s lots more. I suspect it was pondering these matters that led Tony Campolo to change his mind on gay marriage.
You could stand to read commentary on the Holiness Code and realize the role it came to play in the Hebrew community.
Wisdom comes from realizing what should and shouldn’t rule our behavior from Scripture. I’m afraid you aren’t there yet.
tracey marie June 15th, 2015 at 3:44 pm
You debase America, you believe in conspiracies, you hate Americans and you are a troll.
Chris June 15th, 2015 at 7:12 pm
Thank God most Americans disagree with you. And a sizable portion of these are Christian, like me. Just the other day, the noted liberal evangelist Tony Campolo came out in favor of gay marriage after years of opposition. He evolved; you can, too.
Your last paragraph makes absolutely no sense. If you meant to say we have freedom of religion but not freedom from religion, you truly do not understand American and its constitution. You probably are regurgitating talking points some big box minister told you. What part of “no religious test” do you not understand?
rhzszm June 15th, 2015 at 9:42 pm
“noted liberal evangelist”
I wonder when he’ll come out in favor of sex with animals. I mean, heck, everybody’s doing it and everybody is for freedom. If it feels good, do it! Who are we to judge? Sex with children… a-ok. Some cultures think so… they have the New Testament and Old Testament in their Bible too!
burqa June 15th, 2015 at 10:00 pm
Gays are only seeking the same rights that heteros have.
This is where your sex with animals argument crumbles to powder.
You are fine with a country where you have rights others do not enjoy. Gays should have the same rights as you to marry the one they love. Could you please explain how you are able to keep the commandment to love others when at the same time you support depriving them of the rights you have.
You are outside of love, and the consequences of your unbelief are not good.
rhzszm June 15th, 2015 at 11:03 pm
Rights? Most fathers think they have the right to decide who their daughter dates. Never mind marries.
They’re not allowed to have those rights because they haven’t earned them. Furthermore, marriage is not a structure of love but of family.
It’s dangerous enough they are allowed near schools, in universities, near impressionable children.
What is it about Jesus’ love that causes homosexuals to have higher rates of mental and physical diseases associated with their lifestyle?
Did Jesus say Adam and Steve can get married?
Why are so many families who have kids come out to them ripped apart? Is it religious intolerance or just the fact that this behavior and lifestyle is abominable when it touches you or affects your family?
burqa June 16th, 2015 at 12:15 am
Yes, rights.
I am talking about legal rights.
For example, if a gay couple with children separate, both parents should have the same rights to support payments and/or visitation rights that hetero couples have. To deny a parent access to their child and to deny that child access to his or her parent is destructive, socially.
It is also wrong to have a society where some people have rights denied to others. This is a foundational principle of our nation and we have always been on a path to a more egalitarian society. We became more equal when we abolished slavery. We became more equal when women got the vote and later when the women’s liberation movement exposed inequalities we have been addressing. We became more equal when we passed civil rights legislation and we became more equal when we integrated our society, sometimes by force.
We are becoming more equal as the gay rights movement rolls from victory to victory.
The Supreme Court has already ruled that marriage is a right long believed essential to the pursuit of happiness. It did not say that this right is held only by heterosexuals, sorry.
Marriage a “structure… of family”?
What are you talking about?
Are you saying you would further restrict the rights we have by only allowing fertile couples who produce children to marry?
Me, I don’t like the idea of American citizens having rights taken away from them. I also don’t like the idea of some American citizens having rights other American citizens are deprived of, just because of who they love.
As for Jesus, he said nothing about homosexuality, but he DID talk about who we should love and you’re falling short, my friend. He also set a priority in terms of where loving others stood compared to other commandments and again, you’re missing the boat.
In terms of your point about families being “ripped apart” by kids coming out, that’s not my experience, either in my family or in those I have known. Sometimes there is confusion, but in every case in my experience the love the rest of the family had for the gay family member was greater than their prejudice. People were faced with their own prejudices and came to see that loving their family member was more important than what some stupid pundit on TV had to say. In their way, they learned the lessons of loving others that Jesus Christ taught us and which many, including yourself, refuse to learn, much less practice.
eaglesfanintn June 16th, 2015 at 9:56 am
Did Jesus say they couldn’t? If you could point to that chapter and verse where he specifically said that, we’d all appreciate it.
rhzszm June 16th, 2015 at 4:16 pm
Read your Bible! Jesus talks about marriage in Matthew 19.
Khary A of the Thousad Sons June 16th, 2015 at 5:58 pm
Can I read something a little more current? Something that says rape is wrong in it somewhere. Yeah before we decide to base our life decisions on a book written by people that didn’t know diseases are made by microbes, let’s make sure they actually have a full concept of wrong and right. I’d get into it more but I have to make these bears attack some children cause they laughed at my baldness.
2 Kings 2:23-25
rhzszm June 16th, 2015 at 6:33 pm
There is plenty in the Bible about rape being wrong, but even more about what makes relationships right.
Rape is the work of Sodomites. You know, the gay marriage rights type… that’s rape.
rhzszm June 16th, 2015 at 10:26 pm
2 Kings 18:27
Khary A of the Thousad Sons June 17th, 2015 at 1:46 am
OK first of all don’t tell me I got a master OK? I have no Master, be sure of that…”commander”. Second seriously don’t try to insinuate that I eat poop and stuff. It’s gross and frankly uncalled for. Now on to the rape thing. in NO place in the bible does it ever say that RAPE IS WRONG, DON’T DO IT!! It ( the bible) has consequences for the action, provided you’re caught but no concrete statement of condemnation on the act itself. It talks a lot about killing the victim of rape and punishing the assailant though, Which makes no effing sense. Oh maybe just some payment and the whole things good then huh? yeah No civilized system of society would allow for such a grievous oversight as to not include rape in the tenets of their society.
OH the Sodomites, that’s your point of order for the situation of rape…Sodomites do it. Riiiight. This one statement here only shows your ignorance of the basic human right of existence. Rape is not committed by other people than yourself, You are one of those people to say otherwise is a clear sign of sociopathy, nothing more nothing less. Rape is an act purveyed on others for nothing but the act of exacting violence and impressing power and control over another. It strips the rights and humanity from a person, leaving them hollow. What our LGBTQ members of our society have is not that. The tears they shed for their dead are the simple human signifier of something vastly greater than what you obviously can perceive or undoubtedly comprehend. You may be adamant in you faith and that may be commendable but your ignorance of the deeper truer messages of your savior are sadly lost on you.
Above them all one tenet should stand out clearer than any other.
You are not the judge of man(kind), only your god is and by his hand alone will judgement be meted out.
rhzszm June 17th, 2015 at 2:40 am
So offensive, repugnant and morally insensitive is the LGBTQ lifestyle, we honor Our Savior by not literally stoning them to death in public. It is not surprising the life failures and parasites comprising the democrat party are so lustful for money and power they cater to this antisocial, deviant proclivity for votes.
tracey marie June 16th, 2015 at 6:16 pm
many people are married and they do not have children, their family is the 2 of them.
rhzszm June 16th, 2015 at 10:20 pm
Well, it’s the liberal plan. Raise women too stupid to be marriage material while they’re in their child-rearing years, pay men too little to support a family on their own.
This is the economy democrat party values have built.
Chris June 15th, 2015 at 11:13 pm
Your comment comes from pure ignorance. You may wish to pick up a book sometime and read about Tony Campolo. He’s a man of good conscience who I have disagreed with for years regarding gays. It does my heart good to see that he finally has come around on this issue.
Your disgusting remarks about pedophilia are par for the course anymore for the rightwingers. Tell me, for your drawing an equivalence between homosexuality and pedophilia, how you stand on the über-Christian family du jour, the Duggar? The rightwing has disgustingly lined up behind this perverted family simply because they are of the right color, the right religion and the right political party. Awful.
And how about their great champion, Mike Huckabee? His defense of the family is awful. And the recent revelation that the co-author of one of his books is a child molester comes then as no surprise.
Hypocrites all. You included. Christ reserved special condemnation for hypocrites.
rhzszm June 15th, 2015 at 11:29 pm
I am delighted that, having found a tv evangelical leading a fake “Christian” church, you will now follow all the rest of the Laws of Moses, including the prohibitions on eating fish without fins or scales and wearing clothing of mixed fiber.
It’s funny to hear a homosexual marriage “rights” activist call incest-doers and animal fornicators hypocrites. Have you ever read the Bible?
Chris June 15th, 2015 at 11:53 pm
How you perceive me as you have portrayed is truly strange. You’re just getting sloppy now.
And you’ve shown you do not know Campolo by calling him a “tv evangelical.” Your loss.
I will leave you to dodge questions from other people. You’ve shown you won’t give me honest answers regarding Leviticus.
Good night and good luck. You need it.
burqa June 15th, 2015 at 11:54 pm
Sounds like a kid to me………..
burqa June 15th, 2015 at 9:43 pm
Um, no.
The only thing that defines whether a person is a Christian or not is whether they have believed in their heart at some time in their life that Jesus Christ is their Lord and was raised from the dead. What takes place in the heart is a private thing and what people say publicly is not always what they believe or have believed at one time or other in their heart.
Because it is a private, personal thing, it is not for others to determine what they have believed.
Trying to identify trick questions or come up with shortcuts with which to pry into someone else’s private thoughts is offensive. It is likewise presumptuous to think one is somehow empowered to get so deeply into someone else’s head and decide what they believe or have believed about such matters.
Try that “do unto others” thingy when it comes to being so intrusive and ask yourself if such trick questions may be asked of you by others who have empowered themselves to determine by your answer what you believe privately.
Kick Frenzy June 15th, 2015 at 2:28 pm
“They say it’s God’s business to judge, but they condemn; they say they hate sin but love the sinner, but they embrace laws that demean and punish those who don’t share their values”
QFT
Elliot J. Stamler June 15th, 2015 at 2:33 pm
The “Rev” Mr. Graham may well have a chance to evangelize to evil homosexuals who wind up in hell which is exactly where he is going to wind up.
burqa June 15th, 2015 at 9:34 pm
YEAH!
How dare he be as hateful as you?
Suzanne McFly June 15th, 2015 at 4:32 pm
Who is gonna save you from judgement of others?
Angelo_Frank June 15th, 2015 at 6:10 pm
Grifters like Franklin Graham claim to be followers of Jesus but they sure don’t seem to walk in his shoes. Such venom, threats and hateful fire and brimstone, spewing from Graham’s lips, is not a display of humility in the slightest.
Chris June 15th, 2015 at 7:03 pm
Couldn’t add another word to the writeup. Good commentary.
David Ish June 15th, 2015 at 9:59 pm
If Hell is away from Him and people like him I will welcome going to Hell.
burqa June 15th, 2015 at 10:04 pm
Hmmmm.
Ever notice Alan never gets around to posting what leaders of other religious sects who don’t care for homosexuality have to say about the subject?
Shoot, in some Islamic countries they execute people for being gay but nary a word on it from Alan.
Alan knows Judaism better than I, and I wonder what some of the more conservative sects think. But would Alan ever post such a thing?
tracey marie June 15th, 2015 at 10:20 pm
First, we do not like in a muslim theocracy, that is a deflection. Second, it is the faux xtians screaming and demanding GLBT either be denied rights or die. Stop deflecting from the fact it is christians that are loud and phobic in our country, our secular country.
burqa June 15th, 2015 at 11:52 pm
Estimates vary, but there are at least 2 million Muslims in America and they, as well as other Muslims are the targets of bigotry I don’t much care for.
Our government is not executing people for being gay, but governments in Muslim countries are. That’s where they not only deny them rights but also kill them.
I don’t get the part about theocracy, we have a secular government and obviously not a Christian theocracy, either.
We do not hear here about what conservative members of other faiths have to say about gay rights because Alan refuses to look into it. How do you know there are no Muslims, Jews, or others being just as loud?
Our country has thousands of different sects of just about every religion there is. There are a number of Muslim sects and I am curious if there are differences in how they regard gays. It would be a mistake to lump them all into one stereotypical bundle for the same reasons it is foolish to do so with Christians or other groups.
We have quite a few Jews, too, thus my question Alan would be better to handle than I, because he knows the subject far better than I.
Yes, you are correct that there are quite a few Christians who are bigoted toward gays. There are also many Christians who support gay rights. The most recent poll I saw said the percentage of Americans who said they were Christians was down to about 70%. With that figure in mind, not much of anything of significance is going to get passed without a large number of Christians supporting it.
With that many of our people being Christians, it would likewise be foolish for a political pundit to deliberately antagonize such a large demographic of voters. After all, this is a major mistake of the Republicans and pundits on their side – they have adopted policies and “core values” that antagonize women and people of color, which is why they have only gotten the most votes in one presidential election since 1988.
Keep that in mind, Ms. Marie.
When the Supreme Court rules in support of gay rights, it will be something like 8 Christians and 1 Jew doing so. Same with when legislation is passed – it will be passed with massive Christians supporting it. One hopes you will not be shy about giving those Christians we agree with credit and will not attempt to deflect when that credit is due.
tracey marie June 16th, 2015 at 12:09 am
We are talking about our country not muslim countries that are theocratic.We do not hear about other religions because they are not bellowing their hate daily on the news, online, in papers and magazines. Other religions do not have representatives going to other countries and writing kill the gays laws. I give people credit, not religion.
Dcbos June 15th, 2015 at 10:25 pm
So this mook puts them thru hell in this life ; if there is a hell there will be a special place for people that steal money from the poor and indigent in the name of the lord like this guy
Snow Cipher June 16th, 2015 at 1:33 am
That sort of “love” includes using torture practices on gay Christian youth that have been banned in most nations against known terrorists, but are legal to use on gay teens in Bible-belt (and Book-of-Mormon-belt) states. He’s moving his accounts off shore because he has an eye on the “conversion therapy” lawsuit in New Jersey. When those folks lose big money for what they did to those gay teens, the flood gate of lawsuits will open up all across the nation. You know that Graham’s ministry has to be up to its Holy Roller eyeballs in the systematic torture of gay teens “for their own good.”
Snow Cipher June 16th, 2015 at 1:33 am
That sort of “love” includes using torture practices on gay Christian youth that have been banned in most nations against known terrorists, but are legal to use on gay teens in Bible-belt (and Book-of-Mormon-belt) states. He’s moving his accounts off shore because he has an eye on the “conversion therapy” lawsuit in New Jersey. When those folks lose big money for what they did to those gay teens, the flood gate of lawsuits will open up all across the nation. You know that Graham’s ministry has to be up to its Holy Roller eyeballs in the systematic torture of gay teens “for their own good.”
Warman1138 June 16th, 2015 at 5:35 am
Gotta have an enemy, doesn’t matter who or what but they gotta have an enemy. If it isn’t one thing today it’s another thing tomorrow. There’s nothing like fear to maintain control over the people that feed your wallet….eh, Mr. Graham.
booker25 June 16th, 2015 at 9:47 am
Franklin is as dumb as a post.
MaryJane Mccarthy James June 17th, 2015 at 10:55 am
Poor Frankie boy it is he and his father and the rest of the FAKE CHRISTIANS who will be burning in hell..
Playful Lutra June 18th, 2015 at 9:29 am
Another example of PCS – Professional Christian Syndrome